Finance Committee on May 29th, 2012

Evidence of meeting #64 for Finance in the 41st Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was csis.

A video is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

Bill C-38, An Act to implement certain provisions of the budget tabled in Parliament on March 29, 2012 and other measures

MPs speaking

Lysane Blanchette-Lamothe

Also speaking

Andrew Jackson Chief Economist, Canadian Labour Congress

Pierre Céré Spokesperson, Conseil national des chômeurs et chômeuses

Jason Clemens Director of Research, Macdonald-Laurier Institute

Greg Smith Vice-President, Finance, Risk Administration and Chief Financial Officer, PPP Canada Inc.

Paul Kennedy As an Individual

Jane Londerville University of Guelph, As an Individual

Michael Zigayer Senior Counsel, Criminal Law Policy Section, Department of Justice

Jerome Brannagan Deputy Chief, Operations, Windsor Police Service

Stephen Bolton Director, Border Law Enforcement Strategies Division, Public Safety Canada

Superintendent Joe Oliver Director General, Border Integrity, Royal Canadian Mounted Police

May 29th, 2012 / 8 p.m.

Liberal

Scott Brison Liberal Kings—Hants, NS

The Economist magazine has pointed to evidence that in some markets in Canada we may have a housing bubble. Governor Carney has spoken not of a housing bubble but a personal debt bubble. Do you see the personal debt bubble as being closely related to debt on housing, and particularly, lines of credit based on home equity lines of credit?

8 p.m.

Prof. Jane Londerville

Well, the split between personal debt and mortgage debt is about the same. The whole pie has grown, but the split's still about the same as it was. It's not that people are borrowing just to buy houses now or just on their credit cards.

8 p.m.

Liberal

Scott Brison Liberal Kings—Hants, NS

No, but the value of existing homes has gone up in some markets. We've been told by several witnesses that a lot of the personal debt has led to Canadians having the largest level of personal debt in Canadian history. It's a $1.50 of debt per dollar of annual earnings, which is higher than the Americans at this stage. There's a relationship with housing prices and valuations from that.

8 p.m.

Prof. Jane Londerville

One of the restrictions, recently, was that if you are refinancing your house now, you used to be able to borrow 95%. You could take out all the equity you'd built up in that house. Now it's 85%—

8 p.m.

Liberal

Scott Brison Liberal Kings—Hants, NS

For a brief period of time, you could borrow 100% from 2006 to 2008.

8 p.m.

Prof. Jane Londerville

I suppose, yes.

8 p.m.

Liberal

Scott Brison Liberal Kings—Hants, NS

With that level of personal debt bubble and with its relationship with housing prices, I'm wondering whether you can be comfortable in saying there's no housing bubble in Canada. Do you see, in some markets in Canada, a housing bubble in some of the larger—

8:05 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative James Rajotte

Mr. Brison, unfortunately the bells are ringing.

I will just remind members that we are sitting tomorrow night from 6 to 9 p.m. Please watch for all the agendas and notices.

I want to thank our witnesses for being with us here tonight. We appreciate your time very much in responding to our questions.

The meeting is adjourned.