Finance Committee on Oct. 1st, 2012

[Shelly Glover, Conservative, Saint Boniface, MB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

In fact I respectfully disagree with my colleague across the way. Paragraph 3(2)(e) of the act actually already gives this authority, and I'll read it:

(e) foster, in co-operation with any department, agency, or agent corporation of the Government of Canada or of a province, financial institutions and consumer and other organizations, an understanding of financial services and issues relating to financial services

It is in fact already in the act and doesn't require repetition in another section.

I would ask a question of the witness, if I might. In 2010 the commissioner actually used her ability to consult an external stakeholder advisory committee. Was it not under that section of the act that she chose to do that?

[Eleanor Ryan]

Exactly.

Under the existing framework of the legislation, the commissioner did establish and does actually currently have an external advisory committee made up of representatives from the public, private, and voluntary sectors. They meet twice a year. They provide the FCAC with advice and subject matter expertise. The FCAC, or the financial literacy leader and the commissioner, can look at the composition of the committee to make sure that it reflects the recommendations of the task force.

[Shelly Glover, Conservative, Saint Boniface, MB]

Thank you for the clarification.

Thanks, Chair.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

Thank you, Mrs. Glover.

Mr. Mai, over to you.

[Hoang Mai, NDP, Brossard—La Prairie, QC]

Actually, that's not really a concern. What it really comes down to is respecting the recommendations that were made. On the other side, I'd say we've been talking about that consistently. The first recommendation was indeed to have a leader. But the second was to have an advisory council, as called for in the amendment.

The bill sets out the intention to cooperate, and that's good. But with this amendment, we're proposing a structure. We're saying yes, it is important that the members represent and reflect the diversity of the stakeholders and that they be appointed by the commissioner. So we're talking about diversification. And that means going further.

I think we can agree that it may end up working that way. But there could be a partisan appointment—not to say that it would happen. We could have a leader with a very closed vision of things, someone who is even slightly partisan. So the point to all this is really to have openness, to have consultation, to have a structure.

In its current wording, the bill doesn't provide for a structure. I think we would all agree that there has to be cooperation. The point of this amendment is really to build the foundation for cooperation and true consultation.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

Thank you.

We'll go to Ms. Nash and then Mr. Thibeault.

[Peggy Nash, NDP, Parkdale—High Park, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Just to pick up on what my colleague said, although there was quite a lengthy delay, it was the publishing of the report on financial literacy that prompted this legislation. The report is very clear that the task force recommends that the Government of Canada establish an advisory council on financial literacy. Their goal in saying that is that it should be a forum for collaboration and provide ongoing financial literacy advice on the implementation and evolution of the national strategy as well as have a council membership that reflects the diversity of stakeholders with an interest in the national strategy.

Now here we are: not only do we not have a definition of what the financial literacy leader should be doing, but there is no clear requirement that there be a diversity of advice or opinion going forward to the financial literacy leader.

It seems to us that this is a very important recommendation. Financial literacy is not just about the banks and it's not just about the financial sector; it is about Canadians right across this country, and their views and their representation come from a diversity of voices. We think that establishing this advisory council is really fundamental to the success and optimal usage of this new position.

We feel very strongly that my colleague has put forward a key amendment.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

Thank you, Ms. Nash.

Mr. Thibeault is next, please.

[Glenn Thibeault, NDP, Sudbury, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

In relation to the comments from my friend across the way, Mrs. Glover, in relation to the FCAC Act and paragraph 3(2)(e) that she was referring to, it's a general clause, with no necessity bearing on what we're talking to here, which is to create the advisory council for the financial literacy leader.

If paragraph 3(2)(e) were good enough, why would the task force ask for something new in relation to their second recommendation? It's obviously not good enough, in terms of what the task force was recommending, and by making sure we have an advisory council, we'll make sure this financial literacy leader is compelled to listen to a full range of stakeholders. We heard that from our witnesses. I truly believe that's what we need in this act.

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

Thank you.

Is there any further discussion on this amendment? Okay, I'll call the question, then, on NDP-4.

(Amendment negatived)

We'll move to discussion on clause 5.

Mr. Brison, you wanted to address clause 5.

[Scott Brison, Liberal, Kings—Hants, NS]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

My question is for the witnesses.

First of all, how much of the $5 million annual budget of the FCAC will be dedicated to activities in support of financial literacy specifically?

[Eleanor Ryan]

Currently the FCAC receives $2 million annually from the government, and all of that is for financial literacy. The government also announced in the budget as well that there will be an additional $3 million, and that also will be all devoted to financial literacy.

[Scott Brison, Liberal, Kings—Hants, NS]

Will the financial literacy leader be able to hire his or her own staff, or would that be done through the FCAC?

[Eleanor Ryan]

Any employee who works for the financial literacy leader would be an employee of the FCAC and subject to the FCAC Act.

[Scott Brison, Liberal, Kings—Hants, NS]

How many full-time equivalent positions at FCAC will be dedicated to supporting the financial literacy leader?

[Eleanor Ryan]

That's a question that will be worked out once the financial.... Assuming Parliament passes this bill and then the financial literacy leader is appointed, it would be the specific call of the financial literacy leader as to how many employees would work on this activity.

[Scott Brison, Liberal, Kings—Hants, NS]

In addition to the financial literacy leader, how many other staff at the FCAC will be dedicated to activities in support of financial literacy, to put it another way?

[Eleanor Ryan]

How many is really a question that the commissioner and the financial literacy leader would set on a going-forward basis. If you wish, I could find out for you how many current staff are devoted to financial literacy and consumer education. That is information I could obtain from the FCAC.

[Scott Brison, Liberal, Kings—Hants, NS]

What other resources, in addition to the $5 million annual budget, will the financial literacy leader have at his or her disposal?

[Eleanor Ryan]

There is also authority in the bill, if the FCAC and the financial literacy leader should choose to use it, to actually have assessments against financial institutions so that the rest of the FCAC's activities would be paid for via assessments that the financial institutions would pay. There is an option to also assess financial institutions if the commissioner and the FCAC and the financial literacy leader should determine that it is appropriate.

[Scott Brison, Liberal, Kings—Hants, NS]

I'm recognizing that the ability of this public official to lead on this to get the job done will often depend on his or her seniority within the public service, so how senior will the financial literacy leader be? Will it be a director-level position, a director general-level position, or an ADM level?

[Eleanor Ryan]

That is an element that is to be worked out. The person would report to the commissioner, so in that regard he or she would be below the commissioner in terms of the level of government. That would be part of the selection criteria to be worked out if Parliament should pass this bill.

[Scott Brison, Liberal, Kings—Hants, NS]

But it hasn't been defined yet?

[Eleanor Ryan]

Not that I'm aware.

[Scott Brison, Liberal, Kings—Hants, NS]

Has it been defined?