Evidence of meeting #77 for Finance in the 41st Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was poverty.
A video is available from Parliament.
Conservative
Randy Hoback Conservative Prince Albert, SK
As we look for new trade agreements such as TPP, what do you see as the opportunities, and what markets are helped? What would the impact be?
President, Canola Council of Canada
The importance of an agreement such as the TPP, with 11 countries around the table, is that you're talking about negotiating in areas where we can secure access and where we have really predictable science-based regulatory environments in which to trade, and it's not only the partners who are participating in TPP now; it's partners who may come in later as well.
Conservative
Randy Hoback Conservative Prince Albert, SK
Under TPP and trade agreements like that, low-level presence and items like that, which are important to our sector, would also come—
President, Canola Council of Canada
Absolutely. There are a number of areas where we look at tariff and non-tariff barriers. Low-level presence of genetically modified crops, sanitary and phytosanitary issues—those are all really important aspects for which, in a trade agreement, we can come up with a secure and predictable environment for our exporters to work in.
Conservative
Randy Hoback Conservative Prince Albert, SK
You have producers and you have industry players. In your opinion, what would be the impact of a carbon tax on the sector? Do you see that as having any positive impact of any type?
Conservative
Randy Hoback Conservative Prince Albert, SK
You're shaking your head. I know my farmers would definitely would not like to see a carbon tax. I'm sure you're hearing the same things through the whole sector. Would you not agree?
President, Canola Council of Canada
I'm not sure I can answer that one at this time. I'm sorry.
Conservative
Liberal
Scott Brison Liberal Kings—Hants, NS
Well, it would have been interesting if the witness had had a position on cap and trade back when the Conservatives proposed it a couple of years ago, but that's a different issue.
I appreciate all of you joining us today.
I'd like to start off with the issue of income inequality and the issue of inequality of opportunity. This is being raised not just in Canada, but globally, as an important and growing issue.
In Canada we have people such as Roger Martin, dean of the Rotman business school at U of T, raising it as an important issue, and Mark Carney, Governor of the Bank of Canada, who said this summer that those who say income inequality is not an issue are wrong and those who say it should be one of class warfare are wrong: that the focus should be on equality of opportunity and on underpinning Canadian society.
I have a quick question. I'll start off with Canada Without Poverty. When we introduce measures such as tax credits that are non-refundable and are not available to low-income Canadians, does that actually exacerbate the situation? Should we be making those tax credits fully refundable, such that they would benefit low-income Canadians?
President, Board of Directors, Canada Without Poverty
I think the best plan is support for low-income Canadians, so I'm with you there, and I also think that we must think not just about tax credits. I think that's important, but I think money also needs to be invested in social skills, for example, and support given toward those programs, because we know they're successful and we know there are barriers.
For instance, it took me 10 years before I could get my master's degree. In the sense of even starting the process, I didn't know how to communicate. As you know, there's a lot of fallout from an abusive, violent home, so access.... If I applied for a job, there was no way that I could put my thoughts and concepts in a sentence. Just simple things like that, I think, are very important.
I underscore what you said about having whatever full tax benefits low-income people can have, but I think that has to be coupled hand in hand with support programs.
Liberal
Scott Brison Liberal Kings—Hants, NS
How important is affordable early learning and child care to breaking multi-generational poverty in families?
President, Board of Directors, Canada Without Poverty
I think it's critical. I think that if you invest $1 in early childhood education, you save $9 down the road. It just makes good, sound sense. There are nutritional programs, early education programs, and a whole comprehensive package that needs to go with that. In a lot of ways, they're simple to put forward.
On that note, I think Canada wastes a lot of money, in that 5% to 6% of our GDP is actually invested in maintaining poverty. I think that if we use our money smartly, we will see the results in the long run. By using money to do the right thing, I think for sure we'll save money.
Liberal
Scott Brison Liberal Kings—Hants, NS
In terms of the issues of housing and affordable housing across Canada, are there some provinces that are doing a more effective job than others, and can we learn from best practice models?
To tie it in with Monsieur Brun's presentation as well, to what extent are the cooperative movement and cooperative housing more robust in some provinces than others?
Liberal
Scott Brison Liberal Kings—Hants, NS
What can we be doing as federal legislators and government to share those best practices?
President, Réseau Solidarité Itinérance du Québec
I don't want to compare the actions of all the provinces. I'm from a Quebec-wide network, but I know about some of the things happening elsewhere.
As I said, co-op housing is a way to help people who are in deep need or who are in the streets. Non-profit housing, which is another form of social housing, has also proved that supportive housing can help people who have big problems, such as drug addiction and mental health problems—des problèmes de désorganisation—to stay in housing. Then, as was said, it saves money for society, because they will spend less time in jail, in the courts, and in hospital. They will be in their housing. In some cases, with help, they can go back to work or back to school.
President, Réseau Solidarité Itinérance du Québec
In Quebec, when the federal government got out of the financing of social housing in 1994, the government, first the Parti Québécois—but then the Liberals did also go on with it—created their own program for social housing, co-op housing, and non-profit housing. It has proven that it helps. It's not enough, but it helps poor people and gets people out of the streets.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative James Rajotte
Merci.
Thank you, Mr. Brison.
Mr. Van Kesteren is next, please.
Conservative
Dave Van Kesteren Conservative Chatham-Kent—Essex, ON
Thank you.
I want to thank all of you for appearing before us and for the very interesting discussion we're having. I don't think there's anybody at this table who doesn't recognize the need to help people out of poverty. We may have some different ideas about the best way to do that, but I think all of us would agree that the best thing we can offer somebody in poverty is a lifestyle that can lift them out of poverty. I know that there sometimes are things that have to be done before that becomes a reality, but a job is definitely something that is the best thing we can offer people.
I want to congratulate you, Mr. Brun, on your organization. I think it represents in Canada what we do so well—banking—but also that cooperative spirit. Your organization has been very successful in Quebec and in that area.
I would like to ask you what you see as some of the things that we are doing right. I'm not just asking for a pat on the back, because I'm also going to ask—there's a sequence to it—what are some of the things that we can do better to help create...? I'm thinking in terms of corporate tax cuts, of course, but also in terms of red tape reduction and things that hinder businesses from hiring and expanding. What direction have we gone in that is correct, but where can we improve on that and possibly make that a greater reality?
Director, Government Relations, Desjardins Group
Thank you for the question. This is a very wide question. I'll try to focus on maybe one or two aspects.
We just have to realize that cooperatives are basically people taking care of their own, because there is the shared capital, and typically the other companies are not addressing the issues or not providing the services. The cooperatives are really grass-rooted in the community, both in Quebec and anywhere else in Canada. Cooperatives are really grass-rooted in their own communities.
That means a lot of decentralization, so one of the things we can do is exactly this: provide a framework where the cooperative can grow while being and staying as decentralized as possible. For example, the Desjardins Group was really successful—maybe a lot more so than the other financial cooperatives—because it's a federation. In fact, it's not one financial institution: it's 425 individual financial institutions within a federation with specific powers.
By having those types of decentralization and those types of powers, we were able to grow the power of the whole network a lot, but at the same time remain really connected to the community—