Finance Committee on Oct. 18th, 2012

[Dr. Graham Carr]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

Secondly, Mr. Hnatiuk—I have your brief here as well—I want to address the idea of using the Building Canada fund for sport facilities.

As you know, our government had the RInC program, which was fantastic in our region. Mr. Bobocel well knows about the GO Community Centre in Edmonton; the Dale Fisher Arena in Devon; and the Leduc Recreation Centre in the city of Leduc. They're outstanding facilities. It was a good program.

Do you have a preference? Would you rather it be within the Building Canada fund, or would you rather have a separate program, like the RInC program?

[Jeff Hnatiuk]

I think the RInC program is a good program. My understanding of it, though, is that it reacts more to facilities that are in need of repair, as opposed to when new facilities are needed. I think the last major infrastructure program right across this country, prior to the previous Building Canada fund, was in 1967. There's a significant need across the country.

What we find is that sport and recreation facilities, when lumped in with the Building Canada fund, get lost in a number of other priorities. It tends to be a pretty significant fund, obviously, that has to react to a lot of priorities.

Our preference would be for it to be outside of the Building Canada fund.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

To be separate, but be for new and existing....

[Jeff Hnatiuk]

Yes.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

Okay. You are correct. In fact, to correct myself, the GO Centre was funded out of the infrastructure stimulus fund, whereas the other facility was from the RInC program. I take your point on that.

I did want to turn to the Edmonton chamber. I appreciate very much the examples you provided. I think they do in fact answer some of the questions as to how the tax code became so complex. You provided examples of transactions that are very complex.

One of the things is that there's a lack of clarity around them. Hopefully this fall you may see some clarity around some of these issues.

Perhaps one of the reasons you've not seen the recommendation in the last report acted upon within the past year is that there have been a lot of mixed messages—advice to us—in terms of how you should structure this. Some people are saying you should have an ongoing committee that reviews the tax code and makes changes as it goes along.

You're recommending a royal commission. As you mentioned before, I think the Carter commission took 10 years. You're recommending a longer, deeper look at the tax code.

Could you explain why you're recommending this course?

[Robin Bobocel]

Sure. The simple fact of the matter is that bigger in this case is not better with the tax code. It is burdensome, for small business in particular, to wade through the complexity that is the tax code. There is a matter of updating the way business is done, which the original tax code does not contemplate. It simply doesn't address the challenges that small businesses face.

Last year we came to this committee and we asked...I believe the wording we used was for an expert panel. The feedback we got from some of your colleagues, from businesses, from some of our members, was that it didn't go far enough.

We really need to take a deeper look, despite the fact that it's going to take some time and require some significant resources to accomplish. It's a matter of global competitiveness for the Canadian economy. It's a matter of ensuring that small business is able to flourish and not be dragged down by a complex tax code.

It's interesting to note that all three of these policies, which were developed by the Edmonton Chamber of Commerce, were adopted by the Canadian Chamber of Commerce at our annual general meeting in Hamilton a few weeks ago.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

All three of these recommendations?

[Robin Bobocel]

All three of these have been adopted by the Canadian Chamber of Commerce.

I hope you'll be hearing this message from other chambers of commerce in your ridings or perhaps at this committee.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

Thank you. My time is up.

I think I have one more question from Mrs. McLeod to finish it up.

[Cathy McLeod, Conservative, Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo, BC]

Again, thank you. I don't need the whole five minutes.

I appreciate your comments, Mr. Bobocel, in terms of your recommendations. I think we've heard that message somewhat consistently. I want to focus in on that third one.

During the summer I was doing round tables with chambers across the country about “My Business Account”. Most people said that things were working so much better for them.

I know that even when you file your own personal income taxes with the e-filing, the money seems to get automatically deposited much more quickly.

Are you talking about getting that response, but then sometimes six months down the road there is the opportunity to say you're doing checks and balances? Talk a little bit about whether your members are noticing some changes, whether there's enough education out there yet in terms of My Business Account and how people are using it, and whether they're seeing a much more fluid system.

[Robin Bobocel]

I think there is some movement. I think education certainly would help.

This recommendation basically strives to create an equal standard between the taxpayer and the CRA. This is about business certainty and it's about being able to manage cashflow. I'm sure you recognize that in small businesses cash is king, and if you lose track of your cashflow, for whatever reason, it could be catastrophic for your business. This creates some measure of responsibility for the CRA, as well as, obviously, for the taxpayer.

[Cathy McLeod, Conservative, Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo, BC]

It's not precluding the opportunity to come back six months down the road to say you're going into an audit or whatever; you're just saying the assessment is deemed accepted.

[Robin Bobocel]

We're saying that there's a reasonable amount of time by which tax returns should be reviewed and some feedback provided to the taxpayers so that they can continue on with their business in a proper manner. By no means do we exclude the opportunity for CRA to reassess, but there has to be, at some point, a reasonable point where the business can say they've identified how much tax they owe, set aside that amount of dollars, and move forward.

[Cathy McLeod, Conservative, Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo, BC]

It would be interesting, and I might look at pursuing it, but with the new changes with My Business Account and the whole electronic system, I wonder how often we would actually be meeting that target as we speak. It would be very interesting to know.

[Robin Bobocel]

I definitely hope that we see some improvements.

[Cathy McLeod, Conservative, Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo, BC]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

Thank you, Mrs. McLeod.

I want to thank all of our guests for being here today and presenting your recommendations to us and answering our questions. If there's anything further, please do submit it to the clerk and we will ensure all members get it.

Thank you so much.

The meeting is adjourned.