Finance Committee on Oct. 22nd, 2012

[David Collyer]

Well, it won't surprise you to hear us say that we believe the market works and competitiveness matters. The other thing that matters a lot is technology and innovation.

[Brian Jean, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Athabasca, AB]

In fact, the only two threats I see in relation to growing our economy are the chronic skilled worker shortage we have—and you've identified that in your recommendations to us—and the constraints of pipeline capacity and distribution. I think it's no surprise that I would recommend as one of my top five recommendations what you've suggested here, which is to change the classification of that LNG to be able to boost productivity and ultimately our economy. That's what your goal is, is it not?

[David Collyer]

Our goals are to make sure that we've got a competitive investment climate to attract investment and allow us to invest in and grow the economy. That's going to create jobs and it's going to create revenue for governments that can then be used, as was the point that was made earlier, to fund health care, education, and various other services.

[Brian Jean, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Athabasca, AB]

In fact, right now, we actually sell our oil at a discount of between 20% and 40% to the United States, because it's our only customer for 99% of that. Isn't that fair to say?

[David Collyer]

I think there's an issue on the oil side and on the gas side with respect to our not being attached to international markets. In doing so, there's a discount on both products at the moment.

[Brian Jean, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Athabasca, AB]

If we don't expand our distribution channels, we're going to constrain our marketplace, and we won't have those 130,000 jobs that we're counting on in the oil sands, for instance.

[David Collyer]

We won't grow, we won't create revenue, we won't create jobs, and we won't be able to fund the kinds of things the revenue from our industry funds today.

[Brian Jean, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Athabasca, AB]

Are you suggesting that this is the largest threat that our economy faces? It seems to me, based upon the number of jobs we produce—and the oil sands generate 8% of the economy itself—that this constraint is not only restricting the funds we get today in the neighbourhood of, I think, between $2 billion and $4 billion a year because of the discount we give to the United States, but it is also going to threaten our economy in the future.

[David Collyer]

Absolutely. Market access is the biggest single issue in front of us today.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

You have about one minute.

[Brian Jean, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Athabasca, AB]

I was very curious about some other things that you suggested, because I'm from Fort McMurray. As Mr. Van Kesteren told you, I clearly am concerned with employment. I represent more unions, I think, than any other person in this place as well, being from Fort McMurray, and the largest threat that I hear from all of my retailers and my industry people is mobility of workforce and workforce generally. Why did you not pick that as your number one issue?

[David Collyer]

To go back to my previous answer, we think market access is the single biggest issue facing the industry at the moment. The workforce issue is a significant challenge. It's not an issue easily addressed. It's going to take a multi-faceted response. I think the government, as I said earlier, has done some good things on the immigration front.

We have to provide jobs for Canadian workers as well, so training, development, workforce mobility, and under-represented groups in the workforce all have to be part of the answer.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

Thank you.

[David Collyer]

It is extremely important.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

Thank you.

Go ahead, Ms. Glover, please.

[Shelly Glover, Conservative, Saint Boniface, MB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I want to thank the witnesses as well.

I'm going to try to do this as quickly as possible.

I wanted to start with Dr. Raza. Thank you very much, by the way, for the service that you provide to the community. We do think it's very important and we stand by our attempts to try to rectify this situation.

St. Boniface Research Centre and St. Boniface Hospital were here a couple of weeks ago and were pointing out the ineffectiveness of the health care system. In fact, in their document they say that 70% of nurses' time is actually spent looking for the tools, equipment, and things they need to do their job, which obviously is costly. They've got a system called the lean system, which they've copied from an automotive industry sector, that is geared to reducing costs and that kind of thing. The government is trying to find ways to provide the health care that Canadians need in an effective manner, but, of course, hospitals and the provinces have to do their parts to try to find those.

We are trying to do something about paying for it, but the reality of it is that when GDP is only growing by 2% and a little bit, 6% increases are not going to last forever. We certainly don't want to see the country fall into a situation in which we cannot afford the basics that we have. I just wanted to point that out, and I encourage you to speak to the St. Boniface Hospital about that, because I'd love to hear from you after this as to whether or not you might support something like that.

Having said that, I want to turn to Monsieur Dubreuil to ask him about some things that were mentioned. I don't want to be partisan here, but when we look at the platforms and we look at the different suggestions made by the parties, we do the same thing among politicians as we do when we hear from witnesses; we compare them, right? You can't just pluck one thing out of a platform and ask, “Hey, if we reduce small business tax, do you think that would help?”

Let's not forget that the NDP also wants to double CPP. They want a 45-day workyear that would cause EI premiums to go up. They want to increase all the corporate taxes back to at least 19%, if not more. They have a $21.5-billion carbon tax that, again, would be paid for, as Mr. Collyer said, by consumers.

Do you think that those things are good for small business, when you look at the whole of it and not just pluck one thing out of a platform, or do you think that balancing the budgets, making sure we pay down debt, providing hiring credits for small businesses to proceed with creating jobs are better ways to go?

I don't want to put you in a position where you pick one party over the other—

[Voices]

Oh, oh!

[Shelly Glover, Conservative, Saint Boniface, MB]

—but now that you know the story—

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

Order.

[Shelly Glover, Conservative, Saint Boniface, MB]

Now that you know the story and it has filled in the blanks a little bit, do you still agree with that whole story and with decreasing to 9%, along with all the doubling and the tripling of everything else?

Do you agree with it or not? It's a simple question.

[Guillaum Dubreuil]

I think it's a simple question, but not necessarily a simple answer.

[Robert Chisholm, NDP, Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS]

Or do you agree with it as presented?

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

Order.

[Shelly Glover, Conservative, Saint Boniface, MB]

I think it's my turn.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

Ms. Glover has the floor.

Order.