Evidence of meeting #80 for Finance in the 41st Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was federal.

A video is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

David Collyer  President, Canadian Association of Petroleum Producers
Danyaal Raza  Board Member, Canadian Doctors for Medicare
Chris Aylward  National Executive Vice-President, Public Service Alliance of Canada
Guillaum Dubreuil  Vice-President, Regroupement des jeunes chambres de commerce du Québec
Bernard Blanchet  Board Member, City Councillor, Lachine Borough, Montréal, Société de transport de Montréal
Ilene Busch-Vishniac  President and Vice-Chancellor, University of Saskatchewan
Brad Severin  Chair Elect, Alberta Chambers of Commerce
Alex Scholten  President, Canadian Convenience Stores Association
Pamela Foster  Policy Advisor, Canadian Federation of Nurses Unions
Ron Watkins  President, Canadian Steel Producers Association
Toby Sanger  Senior Economist, Canadian Union of Public Employees
Rose Goldstein  Vice-Principal, Research and International Relations, McGill University

6 p.m.

Vice-Principal, Research and International Relations, McGill University

Dr. Rose Goldstein

I probably could send you something—it probably would take longer—in terms of the kinds of programs and comprehensive improvements.

Certainly the licensing and training for professionals really have to be much more open and flexible. In some professions—I'm more familiar with medicine—we've done some of that, but there's a lot more to do in terms of evaluating external training in a reasonable amount of time and assisting immigrants with the complexities and the bureaucracy. I think that kind of program, that kind of support, would go a long way.

6 p.m.

Conservative

Mark Adler Conservative York Centre, ON

Just switching gears a bit, in terms of the research and innovation that we've provided support for, we've put in place the pillars for laying a good foundation for research and innovation and development here in this country.

How do we compare with other countries on that score?

6 p.m.

Vice-Principal, Research and International Relations, McGill University

Dr. Rose Goldstein

In terms of the amount of funding that we as a country invest in basic research, we score quite well. I think you know that.

In terms of funding and performance down the pipeline in research and development, we score not as well. That's why there's a plea for the increased funding for partnerships, for international collaborations, where we don't score as well as other countries.

The output, certainly, of our basic research is also excellent. I just I want to put in a little pitch here. We have set the foundation very well, and we appreciate that as universities, but it is threatened. It is not stable. The investment is being cut back, and I think that compares unfavourably with other countries.

For example, the European Union is roughly doubling their investment in basic research in their framework for 2020. We risk our position if we don't increase our investment.

6 p.m.

Conservative

Mark Adler Conservative York Centre, ON

Yes, but we're certainly moving in the right direction, though, as a....

6 p.m.

Vice-Principal, Research and International Relations, McGill University

Dr. Rose Goldstein

Well, I think we have been moving in the right direction, but I actually think that in 2013, with the $37 million reduction without any reinvestment to compensate for it, we're actually going in the other direction.

There are countries that are doing that, but I think it's not the wise thing to do. Certainly Europe and other countries are moving ahead, especially in these economic times, by investing even more funds in basic research and universities, because that's where the future lies.

6 p.m.

Conservative

Mark Adler Conservative York Centre, ON

Thank you.

How much time do I have, Mr. Chair?

6 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative James Rajotte

You have one minute, Mr. Adler.

6 p.m.

Conservative

Mark Adler Conservative York Centre, ON

Thank you. That's just what I was looking for.

I have a question for you, Mr. Sanger. I'm hoping you can really help me out here, because I have a real problem.

I was looking at your website, the CUPE website, and you have to tell me what.... You have to work with me here, because I have a real difficulty.

I'm seeing page after page after page of resolutions, of statements, of letters condemning Israel, from your union, year after year after year.

6 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative James Rajotte

Okay, ask a question.

6 p.m.

Conservative

Mark Adler Conservative York Centre, ON

I don't see one condemnation, one letter, one word of condemnation of Syria. Can you please explain that to me?

6 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative James Rajotte

Okay, Mr. Sanger, answer briefly on that point, please.

6 p.m.

Senior Economist, Canadian Union of Public Employees

Toby Sanger

That's funny, because I look at our website every day, and I frankly haven't seen pages after pages on that, and I don't think this is particularly relevant.

6 p.m.

Conservative

Mark Adler Conservative York Centre, ON

No, it is relevant because I'm asking the question.

6 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative James Rajotte

Thank you, Mr. Adler. Thank you.

We'll move on to Mr. Marston for a five-minute round, please.

6 p.m.

NDP

Wayne Marston NDP Hamilton East—Stoney Creek, ON

I need to take just a second, Mr. Chair, because we're living in real time, and I just got a real shock. I just got a text that a friend of mine passed away in an ambulance on the way to the hospital five minutes ago. I'm just a shade distracted.

This is an important opportunity for us. Mr. Severin, you talked about temporary workers, and Brian Jean talks about labour mobility. He's fighting for this and talking about it all the time.

We understand the short supply of labour in Alberta, but how can we call them temporary workers when there's just a cycle going around and around? Why don't we offer these people the opportunity to become Canadian citizens, to bring their families here and build?

Mr. Watkins hit on something I think is really important—and it's good to see you again, sir—Red Seal tradespersons, and this idea of a training tax credit to get them. I know that it's a critical need. For those who may not know Red Seal, that's the highest level you get, and it's a guarantee of the quality of service the employer is going to get from these workers. I want to thank Mr. Watkins for bringing that forward, and perhaps you two could have a conversation afterwards on it.

Everybody is agreeing these days about the volatility of the global economy and the potential risk to Canada's economic growth. This is an area again that's of significant importance to Alberta. What are your thoughts about safeguards that the federal government should put into place to protect us from the potential eurozone economic problems, or even the worsening of the American economy?

6:05 p.m.

Chair Elect, Alberta Chambers of Commerce

Brad Severin

I think that probably the greatest protection that can be afforded is one that's generated by true market movements.

If we have the opportunity for market diversity, I think that we create that protection. I think that by ensuring that we have the ability to open our economy, and particularly on the resource sector—not necessarily just bitumen- or natural gas-based resources, but developing a consistent Canadian energy strategy that provides for market diversification of all forms of our energy right across Canada, including oil, gas, potash, wind, and water—we could have an opportunity to diversify our markets. I think that is our greatest protection, and having markets move in a freely operative manner.

6:05 p.m.

NDP

Wayne Marston NDP Hamilton East—Stoney Creek, ON

Mr. Sanger, we talked here just the other day. We had witnesses talking about the relationships in Germany between labour and the government and training. Germany is also showing us what I think is the right mix of public investment and market solutions into a green economy. Obviously education and training are part of that, and it's good to have an economist here because you can give answers to more questions than I probably have.

What measures do you feel the federal government should take to move the Canadian economy and our society to a more sustainable level?

6:05 p.m.

Senior Economist, Canadian Union of Public Employees

Toby Sanger

That's a very good question, and I spoke a little bit in the presentation about that.

It makes a lot of sense for the government to increase investment in different forms of infrastructure. In terms of municipal infrastructure, I think we have a tremendous opportunity now to start to build a low-carbon infrastructure. These investments last for 30 to 40 years. The new deal for cities and communities did have a provision over cities' having to have sustainable development planning. That's really important.

6:05 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative James Rajotte

You have one minute.

6:05 p.m.

Senior Economist, Canadian Union of Public Employees

Toby Sanger

The retrofit program that the federal government used to have was excellent. That can reduce the cost of energy as well, because you're making things more efficient. You're reducing the cost for users as well. A lot of countries have proceeded with that. I think it would be excellent to have a retrofit program focused on the public sector, but also on the private sector too, to achieve some of those gains.

6:05 p.m.

NDP

Wayne Marston NDP Hamilton East—Stoney Creek, ON

Might that not be an area...? We have Mark Carney talking about dead cash. We've talked here about $500 billion that's sitting there. On the refit program, they quote the NDP platform to us regularly. One of the things we talked about was refit across our country, having tradespeople as apprentices, and allowing some of that cash to get out and keep the economy going.

6:05 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative James Rajotte

Okay. Give a brief response, please.

6:05 p.m.

Senior Economist, Canadian Union of Public Employees

Toby Sanger

Exactly. There's a great opportunity here, and this ties into the whole issue about a training strategy.

The federal government has retreated from that and devolved it to the provinces. It's really important, particularly if you're talking about interprovincial mobility, for the federal government to play a key role to bring labour and business together and to have a strategic view of the economy, rather than one that's only a reaction.

6:05 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative James Rajotte

Thank you very much.

Mr. Van Kesteren is next, please.

6:05 p.m.

Conservative

Dave Van Kesteren Conservative Chatham-Kent—Essex, ON

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Thank you everybody for coming here. I hope I get a chance to talk to more than one.

We have five short minutes, though, and I'm going back to you, Mr. Sanger.

You're an economist. Would you agree that you don't share every economist's viewpoint in your presentation?