Evidence of meeting #89 for Finance in the 41st Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was changes.
A video is available from Parliament.
6:15 p.m.
Conservative
Cathy McLeod Conservative Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo, BC
But, again, we have a comprehensive response.
Were there issues with fees that were being charged to organizations at times that were really creating huge issues at the company? In actual fact, was a lot of money not actually going back to the companies, to perhaps do research and development, but for consulting fees?
6:15 p.m.
Partner, National Leader, Global Research and Development, Government Incentives, Deloitte & Touche
Predictability is one thing. What you're referring to is the cost of administration of the program and the cost of getting the credits, which is a function of different private sector attributes. The bottom line is, just as in any other sector of finance, people would acquire services and the more complex the program is to administer, the more requirements there are.
I'm trying to answer your question as simply as I can.
6:15 p.m.
Conservative
Cathy McLeod Conservative Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo, BC
Certainly what we heard, too, is that the capital component is most complex.
Mr. Thomas, to move toward pensions, I always remember a conversation I heard as a fairly young adult. I think there was a teacher, a physician, and someone who ran a small business. Certainly the physician was complaining about having to take care of his own retirement. The teacher was making comments regarding both his wages and retirement, having a defined benefit pension plan. I can still clearly recall the small business person indicating that of course he was paying for both, and was struggling.
First of all, in terms of defined benefit programs, how does the federal government pension plan compare to municipal or some of the provincial public service plans?
November 6th, 2012 / 6:15 p.m.
Federal and Ontario Director, Canadian Taxpayers Federation
In government pension plans, when you look at accrual rates, the 2% accrual rate is common.
Many municipal plans permit spiking. They use sometimes as few as the last three years of earnings, so you have what they call a sprint to the finish line where you get 50 police officers suddenly working overtime and doing a lot of court duty. In Ontario they show up on the sunshine list with these big incomes way in the six figures. That plays a big role in establishing the retirement rate they're going to enjoy for the next 10, 20, 30, or 40 years.
The Government of Canada, by taking steps to rein in some of these things and provide for a later normal age of retirement, is going a long way to reducing its exposure. It needs to go further, but I think it's been estimated the reforms included in this bill are going to save Canadian taxpayers a couple of billion dollars, perhaps $2.6 billion. We applaud that.
6:15 p.m.
Conservative
Cathy McLeod Conservative Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo, BC
I do understand that perhaps a lot of the provincial public sector employees have a 50-50 already. Is that a more common cost-sharing?
6:15 p.m.
Federal and Ontario Director, Canadian Taxpayers Federation
It's tough to generalize, but certainly with regard to contributions, federal government employees have an advantage, and it's an unfair advantage. We believe that wage and benefit structures should be made competitive with the rest of us who don't work for the government.
6:20 p.m.
Conservative
Cathy McLeod Conservative Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo, BC
This is just a one-number answer.
Ms. Pohlmann, do you remember when things changed in terms of the EI fund? You talked about significant dollars being redirected into general revenue. Can you talk about when that changed?
6:20 p.m.
Vice-President, National Affairs, Canadian Federation of Independent Business
That changed in 2009. At that point in time when the Canadian Employment Insurance Financing Board was created, all that money then disappeared and it was down to zero, once again.
We thought it was the right idea, but it was the wrong time.
6:20 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative James Rajotte
Thank you.
Thank you, Ms. McLeod.
I want to thank all our witnesses for being here, for your contributions to our study of this bill. If you have anything further, please submit it to the clerk and we'll ensure that all members get it.
Thank you so much for being here, especially on short notice.
The meeting is adjourned.