Yes.
Could you do the same, Mr. Cudmore, if you have any information the committee could consider? Of that big, broad public policy debate, we as parliamentarians have to justify to taxpayers, including the Canadian Taxpayers Federation which is in the room right now. The $3.6 billion is an awful lot of taxpayer money. The Jenkins panel came out with a specific report, which you two disagree with, but then you have to argue your case with very specific examples in terms of what types of innovations have actually happened as a result of business investment, as a result of the SR and ED program.
I'd like that information from both of you, okay?