It's a very complex area.
I think to start it's perhaps important to remind the committee that the government through budget 2013, through Canada's economic action plan 2013, adopted what I think outside observers consider to be a very balanced approach in terms of austerity or consolidation versus the ongoing need to continue to provide support for the Canadian economy.
The consolidation, the austerity announced in budget 2013, amounted to, as I recall, something in the order of $5.2 billion against a program base total estimates of $270 billion, so it was a relatively small percentage of overall spending precisely for the reason you cited. If reductions are too onerous, too sudden, or significant, they can have negative impacts not only on the provision of services but on underlying growth in the economy.
At the same time part of what drives interest rates is that bundle of outstanding debt. We're seeing that play out now in Europe. If debt gets too large, becomes unmanageable, interest rates go north. They increase, and it becomes....