Evidence of meeting #19 for Finance in the 41st Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was technology.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Vice-President, International Cards and Canadian Regulatory Payments, Royal Bank of Canada
Can I just make one point on that?
Conservative
Dave Van Kesteren Conservative Chatham-Kent—Essex, ON
No, I want to get this first.
You mentioned cyberattacks and you said that nobody's been successful. But the implication is that they're trying. Have I got that right? I'm thinking about the security of all this.
Go ahead, Mr. Colfer.
Head, Mobile Innovation, Visa Canada Corporation
People are definitely trying, yes. In a five-minute window, we have about 1,000 coming into VisaNet.
Conservative
Dave Van Kesteren Conservative Chatham-Kent—Essex, ON
Okay, my wife is constantly chastizing me when I pay for things over the Internet. I guess at the back of my mind, too, I'm thinking, “Well, geez, I am offering this information.” But how safe is that? Are you suggestion that your system is somewhat safer? Although there is no example of—
Vice-President, International Cards and Canadian Regulatory Payments, Royal Bank of Canada
At large, you should tell your wife that she has zero liability when she pays for things over the Internet, which means—
Conservative
Vice-President, International Cards and Canadian Regulatory Payments, Royal Bank of Canada
So she has no liability in any case.
Vice-President, International Cards and Canadian Regulatory Payments, Royal Bank of Canada
You would have no liability if she used it over the Internet.
One of the things I was going to say, and it feeds into the security discussion, is also how quickly technology is moving. We at RBC did not want to be wedded to any single form factor. Just looking around the table here, I see we have a number of different devices. Nobody can actually say which technology will win and where it will go. So we wanted our technology to be flexible enough to be safe and easy, but not wedded to an individual form factor.
Conservative
Dave Van Kesteren Conservative Chatham-Kent—Essex, ON
Just very quickly, I'm going to ask the final question, which I think is what everybody wants to know.
Can't somebody steal this thing? I know this is not like the smartphone, but can't somebody steal it and use it to—
Head, Mobile Innovation, Visa Canada Corporation
You could steal that device the same way you could steal a plastic card. The intelligence inherent in that device allows for a lot of protection, though. That device itself can be locked down from a password. The payment app that you would actually be utilizing to make a payment can also be locked down.
When we talk about putting credentials under secure elements in the cloud—and we're starting with payment today, and it might include licences and passport details tomorrow—everybody can acutely recall, maybe, losing their wallet and having to make the 15 phone calls. In the instance that those are digitally provisioned on a phone, it's one call and they're all shut down, and then all reprovisioned. That's a really powerful thing for consumers.
Chief Legal Officer, EnStream
I can just add that the huge value is the reprovisioning, because if you lose your wallet, how long does it take you to replace all of your cards? You can do it in real time over the air.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative James Rajotte
Thank you so much.
Thank you, Van Kesteren.
We'll go to Mr. Thibeault, please.
NDP
Glenn Thibeault NDP Sudbury, ON
Thank you, Chair.
Last year it was $4.2 billion that was made off of interchange, which the small businesses right across the country paid. We've heard that there is one single rate, but there are many different rates depending on which premium card you carry in your wallet. If you have a negotiated rate with whatever organization and whatever member agency you're with—maybe it's 1.7%—when someone uses a premium card that jumps to anywhere up to 6%, as we're hearing now, with some cards, especially if it's one of the higher premium cards that are coming out. Small businesses are extremely concerned.
I guess, Mr. Schmidt, I'm going to put this question to you. If a customer comes to someone who's using your service at PayPal, if it's a classic Visa or a high-end MasterCard or an American Express card, what is the rate that is charged by PayPal?
February 13th, 2014 / 4:50 p.m.
General Manager, PayPal Canada
In most cases it's 2.9% plus 30¢. That's for whatever they use. If they funded their account with a premium card, debit, different kinds of credit, or anything they have in their wallet that's funded, what we offer the merchant is a flat rate. That's really a core benefit.
NDP
Glenn Thibeault NDP Sudbury, ON
We're hearing that there are as many as 20 different rates, depending on which card a customer is using. So we can understand where small businesses are concerned in this.
Hang on here guys. It is in the budget, so it is something that we were happy to see again—
NDP
Glenn Thibeault NDP Sudbury, ON
No, I didn't say that. I said to hang on. I said it's in the budget; it may be addressed. There aren't a lot of details, and this isn't the place to have that discussion.
We've been pushing the government to act on this. It's getting close, because small businesses are really starting to struggle. I believe I heard earlier that there are going to be no new fees on top of this, so that's great. But what about the terminals? We're hearing that you're going to give choice to consumers. So now we're going to have a debit terminal and a credit card terminal. Are we going to be able to ensure that it's just one, or are they going to have two separate ones? How is that going to unfold?
Head, Mobile Innovation, Visa Canada Corporation
Those terminals accept multiple payment networks.
NDP