Evidence of meeting #25 for Finance in the 41st Parliament, 2nd session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was students.
A recording is available from Parliament.
NDP
Nathan Cullen NDP Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC
Let me characterize it fully; allow me to finish.
—but that people are not only not able to access the unpaid internships that may lead to the career that they choose but are also forced into jobs that don't match the qualifications and talents that they have?
I'm just wondering about the lag and burden on our economy as a result.
National Director, Canadian Alliance of Student Associations
I would say that the public—the taxpayer, the government—invests a lot in students and trains students, in many respects, for specific fields, but provides a comprehensive education as well. To put that investment into those students and have them not be able to use the skills they have gained is an inefficient use of dollars, and they are not living up to their potential and their ability to contribute to the economy.
NDP
Nathan Cullen NDP Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC
We had a comment yesterday about the Canada Builds fund from the government benches, about potentially directing some of that fund towards youth employment, from the building fund.
Would this be at all interesting for the jobs grant program that has been announced? This question is to Ms. Robinson. That program is not directed now towards young people Would it be helpful to have a certain portion of the jobs grant fund directed towards young people?
Chief Executive Officer, Polytechnics Canada
I'd have to think about it more, but the Build Canada program can do a lot more than it is currently doing.
Conservative
Conservative
Dave Van Kesteren Conservative Chatham-Kent—Essex, ON
Thank you all for appearing before us today.
Ms. Seaborn, I want to clarify. You mentioned that women were more likely to be exploited. You have no data; that's just your own take.
The reason I say that is that when we have our witnesses, we compile the information, and it obviously comes from data.
So you have no data. This is something that you just....
President, Canadian Intern Association
The data that I have is from the University of Victoria study that was conducted recently, which indicated that 72% of the unpaid interns were women. Several American studies have come to the same conclusion, as well as anecdotal evidence.
Conservative
Dave Van Kesteren Conservative Chatham-Kent—Essex, ON
Could you provide the committee with that study?
Conservative
Dave Van Kesteren Conservative Chatham-Kent—Essex, ON
That's good. Excellent.
I'm a little confused. I see a trend developing here. On the one hand, we are trying to train young people for jobs. On the other hand, I'm hearing that there is horrible exploitation taking place.
Are there any statistics in that regard? Have any student groups done a study, or do you know of any studies that can determine just how many students are involved in a program that isn't agreed on?
National Director, Canadian Alliance of Student Associations
I'm not sure what you mean by “isn't agreed on”.
Conservative
Dave Van Kesteren Conservative Chatham-Kent—Essex, ON
Ms. Robinson has pretty well laid out, I think, that there are programs under which you know, going into the thing, that you're going to be putting some time in and are not going to be paid; that it's part of the training.
National Director, Canadian Alliance of Student Associations
I would echo what Ms. Robinson said, that there are many portions of academic programs in which working is a part of it. Those are arrangements created by the institution in partnership with the different employers. Some of it might be paid, some of it might not be paid, but you're still receiving consideration. You might be getting academic credit, for example. There's a finite amount of time, and you continue your education after it.
Conservative
Dave Van Kesteren Conservative Chatham-Kent—Essex, ON
So you have no issue with those types of arrangements.
National Director, Canadian Alliance of Student Associations
Those aren't the areas in which the concerns or issues lie, for us.
Conservative
Dave Van Kesteren Conservative Chatham-Kent—Essex, ON
Okay, but are you aware of any studies that could determine just how many students are involved in something other than that?
National Director, Canadian Alliance of Student Associations
I'm not aware of such studies as they relate to students. In most cases they're recent graduates and are no longer students, so they wouldn't necessarily—
Conservative
Dave Van Kesteren Conservative Chatham-Kent—Essex, ON
Are you aware of any studies that would determine that?
Conservative
Dave Van Kesteren Conservative Chatham-Kent—Essex, ON
Ms. Seaborn? No?
Ms. Robinson, can you help me out?
Chief Executive Officer, Polytechnics Canada
Let me tell you the parts that I think are the positive side of the story. Those companies that partner, let's say, with Mitacs—and Rob, you should probably address this—or that partner with colleges.... Yesterday, I think, the Council of Ontario Universities issued a report about work-integrated learning now becoming 60% of Ontario university programming.
Those are not the companies we're after. If you've actually become a company that wants to help design a curriculum, that wants to have field placements, that wants to hire the R and D graduate to bring in expertise on the research lab, you're not going to be one of the companies that are interested in the unpaid internship, because you actually see the value.
For our world, the really wonderful thing about work-integrated learning is that it has given, from the employer's perspective, a “try while you buy” kind of approach.
Conservative
Dave Van Kesteren Conservative Chatham-Kent—Essex, ON
And I want to protect that, because I know how valuable it is. By the same token, I'm hearing that there's a huge problem. I think we all as parliamentarians want to ratify that too.
I remember that when I was in business, for instance, we had a period of time during which people needed to work extra hours. They passed the 44-hour mark, and we didn't pay them time and a half; they just agreed to stay an extra hour. Later on, the labour board....
So aren't there laws that protect somebody who goes into a workplace, or do we have to reinvent the wheel?
Does anybody...?
Mr. Annan.
Vice-President, Research and Policy, Mitacs
I couldn't comment. All of our participants are students, and they're not governed by any sort of employment laws. We just don't have the expertise to comment.
