Evidence of meeting #26 for Finance in the 41st Parliament, 2nd session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was youth.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Internal Coordinator, Canadian Federation of Students
Yes, absolutely, the base starting point should be to track that type of information.
Liberal
Scott Brison Liberal Kings—Hants, NS
The summer jobs market has changed significantly in recent years, yet in 2005 the Canada summer jobs program created 70,000 jobs. In 2013 there were about half that number. Should we move to increase funding for Canada summer jobs program? That's something we can do in this Parliament, something this government can address in a very tangible way. Is this one area in which you would all agree we can make an investment?
On the whole issue of skilled and professional trades, what is the best set of policies or approaches to restore the honour of professional skilled trades in Canada? There has been somehow a diminution in the respect paid to these trades. To look at successes, Frank Stronach was a machinist who became a global business leader. Many people start with professional trades and become enormously successful in business and other pursuits.
Should we as a federal government be leading the way, in perhaps web-based and other marketing approaches, to get young people and their families thinking about skilled trades and professional trades earlier?
President and Chief Executive Officer, Association of Canadian Community Colleges
I'm so glad you're talking about this, because there is a definite stigma out there. The stigma is from parents. If you ask most parents what their dream is for their children, they will say that it's for their children to go to university. They never think about colleges.
Why? They don't know what's happening in colleges. They don't know that colleges offer degree or postgraduate programs. They don't know that apprenticeship can lead to ownership. You just gave a good example, that of Mr. Stronach.
The other thing that I believe is a problem is guidance counsellors—most guidance counsellors went to university and again they don't know what's happening in colleges—and teachers, because teachers got their training in universities. That's a big part of the problem.
What I would say the government could do is institute a national campaign to talk about what trades are, what in fact the various careers are. I would say that post-secondary institutions should be obliged to have on their website information about what is happening to their graduates. All the colleges and institutes and polytechnics do that. It means that the students know that within six months they will find a job in their field.
Liberal
Scott Brison Liberal Kings—Hants, NS
Should we also be encouraging a different culture of education and learning and skills training, to show that it's not an either/or but that you can get a B.A. at a university and your papers as an electrician, as an example?
Should we be changing our student loan model to facilitate people who have a B.A. in history to go on to the professional trades and make it easier for them to do that?
President and Chief Executive Officer, Association of Canadian Community Colleges
In fact, this is already happening. There are a number of articulations or pathways between college and universities, and linking universities to colleges. The issue is that people often don't know about them, and parents don't know. In all the surveys asking how students make choices on careers, it is shown to be mainly their parents who influence them.
Founder and President, Let's Talk Science
I will be very brief.
I want to underscore that the parents are the number one influencer, but I'm not entirely sure I'd encourage the committee to go as far as to focus on promoting only one particular area.
I think we have an amazing opportunity to talk about a new generation of jobs in this country and to bring them all up. We're not getting enough people with engineering degrees, so.... You have to be careful that we're not promoting a pathway. At Let's Talk Science, we really are talking about all three pathways all the time, with everything: it's university, college, trades—
Conservative
The Chair Conservative James Rajotte
Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. Brison.
We'll go to Mr. Keddy, please.
Conservative
Gerald Keddy Conservative South Shore—St. Margaret's, NS
Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Welcome to our witnesses.
I want to pick up on Ms. Schmidt's comment. We have this huge—I hate to use the word because it's overused—organic problem that just continues to grow.
I don't know whether there is a cure for what ails the system; however, I do think we can deal with it piecemeal.
My first question is to Brent and to Tierry. One of the issues with student debt is that students are limited as to the amount they can earn. If you earn too much, you don't qualify for your student loan. This seems to me to be simply backwards. I'm not sure I have the answer to it, but do you encounter this all the time? Do you see it through your student associations?
President, Fédération étudiante universitaire du Québec
Absolutely. The program is different in Quebec, but Brant will be able to tell us what the situation is across Canada.
In Quebec, what is known as protected income goes as far back as 2004. It has not been updated since then. Students who work four months in the summer at minimum wage are penalized when they receive their loans and bursaries. By that I mean summer jobs with students working 40 hours a week at minimum wage. That is the minimum a student can make.
Conservative
Gerald Keddy Conservative South Shore—St. Margaret's, NS
Picking up on that, does this stipulation, without meaning to, also affect the jobs that students will take? We talk about underemployment, which is a word I disagree with, but does this affect it?
Internal Coordinator, Canadian Federation of Students
Yes, absolutely.
Tying into what was answered previously, it is in a diverse labour market that we are stronger. It is the way we are the strongest. This is what we see when we compare ourselves with other countries. Having diversity of offerings, as Bonnie was highlighting, is the primary way in which we have a strong labour market. It's by encouraging people into a variety of fields.
As to the impact of debt upon those fields and career choices, it absolutely affects those career choices. We've seen a 1,000% increase in tuitions fees over the last 15 years. Have we seen a 1,000% increase in wages in any field?
Conservative
Gerald Keddy Conservative South Shore—St. Margaret's, NS
There were a couple of comments made by Denise of the Association of Canadian Community Colleges. One of them was that apprenticeship can lead to ownership. The other comment was that guidance counsellors or teachers or quite frankly parents are encouraging kids to get, as Mr. Brison said, their bachelor of arts in history, which can only take you so far. It's a gateway, but it's a very narrow gateway.
One thing that has been done in Nova Scotia, about which I've talked several times to different groups here, is to let your first two years of community college now qualify as your first two years of university. You can do a carpentry course, a machinist course, or a nurse's aide course and actually work and make good money, and then you can decide that you might want to go to university to take business because you actually want to run a business.
How does that work as part of this huge organic mass that we're trying to chip away at?
President and Chief Executive Officer, Association of Canadian Community Colleges
I'm not sure I understand the specific question, but I can certainly tell you—
Conservative
Gerald Keddy Conservative South Shore—St. Margaret's, NS
Well, do we do this straight across Canada?
President and Chief Executive Officer, Association of Canadian Community Colleges
Yes, we do.
Conservative
President and Chief Executive Officer, Association of Canadian Community Colleges
Yes.
Conservative
Gerald Keddy Conservative South Shore—St. Margaret's, NS
Can we increase it from just a few trades to all of the skilled trades?
President and Chief Executive Officer, Association of Canadian Community Colleges
What is happening in Canada that is very interesting—and Minister Rickford often refers to it.... Whenever he gives a speech in public he always says that it's great in Canada that we have college students who aspire to go to university and we have university students who aspire to go to college. I love that quote, because in fact it is happening.
I had the chance to be in the U.K. and Germany with Minister Kenney a couple of weeks ago. In Germany, despite the many good things they do, the fact is, unfortunately, that a student who starts in one pathway is stuck there. By contrast, in Canada they in fact have the possibility to pursue their study and go to a college to get a degree or a post-graduate program, or after college to go into a university. We have great flexibility in which credentials are being recognized by the institutions.
Conservative
President and Chief Executive Officer, Association of Canadian Community Colleges
Many don't; that's the problem.
Conservative
NDP
Murray Rankin NDP Victoria, BC
Thank you, and thank you to all of the witnesses.
I'd like to ask my first question to Ms. Amyot of the Association of Canadian Community Colleges.
You referred to aboriginal people in your remarks, the fastest-growing demographic group in Canada. What programs, according to your association, should the government implement to make sure that aboriginal people have access to post-secondary education and the skills they need for this job market?