Evidence of meeting #26 for Finance in the 41st Parliament, 2nd session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was youth.
A recording is available from Parliament.
President and Chief Executive Officer, Association of Canadian Community Colleges
What I will say is that very recently the government increased the funding for K to 12. This is very good, but what has not increased is the funding for the post-secondary level. Now there are more students than before, but the funding has not increased.
So I would answer that in general all the funding for post-secondary for aboriginal people should be increased in order to reflect the growth in population and the fact that there are more and more students who in fact now go to post-secondary.
NDP
Murray Rankin NDP Victoria, BC
Understood. This is a broader question for you as well. The Canada job grant is going to require, as you know, matching for employers to get the government grants. Your association states on your website that small and medium enterprises are major job creators in Canada, creating 70% of new jobs in the country. Is there a concern among your members that small businesses, say, two- or three-person businesses, may be unable to send their people for training through your institutions because $5,000 is a large sum for those kinds of businesses?
President and Chief Executive Officer, Association of Canadian Community Colleges
In fact, we're quite happy to see the flexibility that the government has shown recently with respect to the Canada job grant. We do have two areas of concern where we want to ensure that there is recognition. One is credential learning, meaning that the students who will receive some training will have credits for it, and it will be recognized from a mobility perspective. So that's very important.
President and Chief Executive Officer, Association of Canadian Community Colleges
The second thing is that we want to ensure that this training will also include upgrading in essential skills because often, unfortunately, people are not productive in the workplace because they don't have the eight essential basic skills.
NDP
Murray Rankin NDP Victoria, BC
Very good. Thank you.
My next question is also on small business, for Ms. Watts-Rynard of the Canadian Apprenticeship Forum.
As you know, apprenticeship incentive grants are targeted at apprentices. From what you've said, it seems like one of the challenges we're facing is to make sure businesses provide employment to learners for the duration of their apprenticeship, which has been proven particularly challenging for small businesses.
Is the Canada job grant going to help in this process, for example, by allowing employers to count part of the salary that they pay the apprentice towards their contribution of up to $5,000?
Executive Director, Canadian Apprenticeship Forum
I think we would be waiting for that kind of detail. The Canada job grant didn't address what I would have said was related to apprenticeship training. We're talking about short-term training whereas apprenticeship training tends to be over four years, on average.
So I wouldn't have said that it addressed it yet, but I think that will depend on the detail.
NDP
Murray Rankin NDP Victoria, BC
Interesting. So does the maximum two-year duration, then, of the apprenticeship incentive grant result in financial challenges for the apprenticeship? For example, to what extent would aligning the duration of the apprenticeship incentive grant with the length of an apprentice's program lead to higher enrolment in apprenticeship programs. Would that be a good idea?
Executive Director, Canadian Apprenticeship Forum
The incentive grant is for the first two years and then the completion grant is for the last year. So we do cover $4,000, and it's only the third year that's not connected with the incentive grant. But that isn't the incentive to keep them employed; that's an incentive for the apprentice to continue and to go back to school to complete their technical training.
So it's not working by keeping them employed from an employers' perspective. It's working to get the apprentice to get back into technical training, to progress.
NDP
Murray Rankin NDP Victoria, BC
A quick question for Mr. Smith from the national association of disabled students, what measures could be adopted to reduce unemployment for disabled youth? You talked about skills link needing to be enhanced. What did you mean by “enhanced”?
National Coordinator, National Educational Association of Disabled Students
I think there is a whole range of measures that could be undertaken. I wanted to jump in when we were talking about the experience that students get while they're in school that benefits their job search when they graduate.
A lot of students who have disabilities, while they continue their academic programs, are unable to work. Sometimes it's because of their disabilities and they're only able to take part-time courses, so they can't work. In some cases, it's because their disability support funding is affected if they take a job. That's probably the most serious issue, and that was identified when the HUMA committee met as well. In their report “Exploring Employment Opportunities for Persons with Disabilities”, it is a major disincentive to employment for disabled people, in general, but for youth with disabilities who need to get summer jobs and part-time work experience while they're at college or university, that's a serious issue.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative James Rajotte
Thank you.
I'll just remind colleagues that you're asking some very good questions, but if you ask a good, big question at the end, it's hard to be fair to the witnesses in terms of giving them time to answer.
I think we will return to that in a later round, Mr. Smith.
We'll go to Mr. Allen, please.
Conservative
Mike Allen Conservative Tobique—Mactaquac, NB
Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.
Thank you to our witnesses for being here.
I'm going to pick up a little bit with you, Mr. Smith, at where you left off. In the last 2013 budget, effective this year, there's going to be $222 million annually under the new labour market agreements with the provinces to tackle I think some of the things you're talking about, as well as this year with the Ready, Willing and Able initiative.
National Coordinator, National Educational Association of Disabled Students
Yes.
Conservative
Mike Allen Conservative Tobique—Mactaquac, NB
I think of a young kid by the name of Aaron in my riding who's on the autism spectrum. He's just a really talented kid and very bright, and I think he has a lot of promise in terms of the future. What I'd like to do is get your feedback on how that can be structured to try to get at some of the things that you've just talked about in terms of bringing people, disabled people, because—
National Coordinator, National Educational Association of Disabled Students
I'm sorry. What can be...?
Conservative
Mike Allen Conservative Tobique—Mactaquac, NB
Well, the structure of the labour market program over the next four years, the $222 million a year, how that could be structured and what—
National Coordinator, National Educational Association of Disabled Students
Yes. I think it's probably a larger question for the Council of Canadians with Disabilities, who are not here right now and probably know more about this than I do.
But certainly the big issue is making sure that students.... In Ontario, for example, for a student who is on ODSP, if the student has a physical disability, needs attendant care, and has medical costs, transportation costs, and whatever related to their disability, then the incentive to work is limited if you think you're going to lose all of your ODSP support. This is not just an issue for the federal government. A lot of this relates to how the provinces choose to handle their disability support programs as well, so it's a federal and provincial issue. It's a matter of making sure there is sufficient incentive for people to work so they don't lose their disability benefits, which are critical for them.
You mentioned a student in your riding who has autism. I would say that actually there's a higher percentage of students who are high-functioning with autism—such as Asperger's, for example—in Canadian university and college programs and who are excelling. Also, there are a lot of students who have chronic health conditions and mental health conditions. Many of these students require disability supports and programs that help them move into the labour market.
So certainly the federal government is doing quite a bit, I think, in improving and enhancing labour market agreements and funding.
Conservative
Mike Allen Conservative Tobique—Mactaquac, NB
How are you and your association actually integrating how we try to integrate those students? Because, as you indicated, there are 400,000 with post-secondary degrees and 800,000 people out there, so it sounds to me like it's promising for these folks to contribute.
National Coordinator, National Educational Association of Disabled Students
Yes. I guess the most recent SLID data suggests that in the last 10 years, the percentage of students with disabilities who are getting university degrees, for example, is I think twice what it was 10 years ago, so that's encouraging. The issue becomes, though, that many of these students need more education than students who don't have disabilities, so it's important for funding to be available for graduate study, for example.
The Canada student loans program is generous to many students in terms of grants and loans when they are engaged in undergraduate study, but in order for people with disabilities to compete in the employment market, they often need to get another degree or have additional education, particularly if they don't have the skills acquired from summer employment and part-time work while they're in school.
It's a combination of academic accomplishment and the degree or diploma, and the skills from employment experience, because that's what employers are looking for. Funding for an additional degree or further education is important. There are measures such as the repayment assistance program for persons with disabilities, which is helping people in repayment, people who have disabilities and low incomes, but there needs to be a little more done to support more education and less debt.
Brent brought up the huge debt load of Canadian students who have post-secondary education. The debt load for graduates with disabilities is higher, and the income level is much lower on average, particularly in the first few years when they enter the labour force.
Conservative
Mike Allen Conservative Tobique—Mactaquac, NB
Okay.
Really quickly for Denise and Sarah, this is a question on metrics. You indicated.... We heard from Nobina Robinson last week when she was here. You're reporting a lot of your stats and metrics of success based on the funding you're getting from the provinces in terms of your students' success and those types of things. That is all mandatory reporting. You have to report back.