Finance Committee on April 2nd, 2014

[Jean Lortie]

Absolutely.

The federal government commissioned the Arthurs Report in 2006. It observed a huge disparity in the treatment of young workers in Canada. The report even recommended amending Part III of the Canada Labour Code.

All over the country, we see a lot of disparities in the working conditions of young Canadians coming into the workforce. There is little or nothing in the way of pension funds and social protection, and jobs are rather atypical, in the sense that they are part-time, casual, or found through a placement agency. So those young people are more likely to have working conditions that are precarious.

We see that the situation of people coming into the workforce today is much worse that it was for young people 30 years ago. A number of our recommendations deal with modernizing labour laws to allow young people to be able to have equivalent working conditions for equivalent work.

[Matthew Dubé, NDP, Chambly—Borduas, QC]

You mentioned another aspect in terms of pensions. I would also like to hear Mr. DiCaro’s opinion on that.

We hear a lot about a two-tier system for people my age, both in salaries and in retirement plans. Is that a reality? If so, what are the long-term consequences?

Mr. DiCaro can answer after you.

[Jean Lortie]

In Canada, we are seeing that defined benefit plans are in danger. More and more employers are getting out of plans of that kind, or, if they are keeping them, only those hired by a specific date or having full-time employment can have access to them. As a result, young workers entering the workforce have no access to plans of the kind that guarantees financial security in old age. They can use voluntary programs, like RRSPs or the like. So they are doomed to a life of instability, even more so when they retire at 67.

[Matthew Dubé, NDP, Chambly—Borduas, QC]

Of course.

[Angelo DiCaro]

Yes, I agree.

Granted, my presentation didn't focus necessarily on pensions but the experiences that we've seen are similar to what Jean has said. Again, we can look at the state of pension plans as it relates to young workers. There has been a ratcheting down of the quality of pension plans available, and in bargaining that seems to be the new frontier of concessions that are being asked of unions, to scale down the retirement security components of those agreements. Again, it's happening in a way that will affect future generations.

I think the big challenge is that young workers are coming into the market today with expectations that are so low about what a job can and should deliver to them that is really—

[Matthew Dubé, NDP, Chambly—Borduas, QC]

The dynamic is different.

[Angelo DiCaro]

—unfair. It's a totally different role reversal from where it was a generation ago.

[Matthew Dubé, NDP, Chambly—Borduas, QC]

I have a question for Ms. Moreau, from the Canadian Federation of Independent Business.

The seventh slide shows the results of a survey on company hiring of young people. The survey shows staff being hired in 56% of the cases.

Are those good quality jobs or part-time jobs?

[Monique Moreau]

The jobs on the seventh slide are full-time. This matches a lot of other data that I cannot provide you with today, but that will be available in the next few weeks. I could send that report to the committee, if you are interested.

These are jobs in small and medium-sized businesses. I will leave you to judge whether they are good quality jobs or not.

[Matthew Dubé, NDP, Chambly—Borduas, QC]

Thank you.

I would like to ask you one last question.

At our last meeting, student representatives told us that student debt means that it is increasingly difficult for a young person to start a business.

Is that something that your organization has noticed? If so, what are any possible solutions, aside from solving the problem of student debt, of course?

[Monique Moreau]

Starting a business in Canada is certainly a challenge. It can be complicated. Our entrepreneurs tell us that they will do it if they have a good idea and if there is a demand. That is why there are about two million businesses in Canada, and 109,000 of them belong to our organization. It is complicated and there are a lot of challenges because of all the paperwork and all the regulations.

Clearly, we support regulation that is designed to ensure safety, of course, but some forms of regulation may not be so necessary. We are presently getting updated on that.

[The Acting Chair, Conservative, Dave Van Kesteren]

Thank you.

Mr. Keddy.

[Gerald Keddy, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margaret's, NS]

Welcome to our witnesses. Thank you for staying.

I think the one thing everyone can agree on around the table is that this is quite an onion and there are many layers. I don't know that any of us can put our finger on one single issue that's really out of whack here.

Mr. DiCaro, I have to ask you a question. You used the generational word. I have to tell you that from my generation to my children's generation there's a huge difference in jobs that are available.

I will give the kids full credit. Of six kids, all of them have jobs. All of them had part-time jobs; all of them had jobs in school. But their friends didn't have jobs, and many of their friends didn't think they needed to have jobs. I really think that it's not that workers have low expectations; I think there's a bit of a problem with high expectations.

I would just like an answer on that.

[Angelo DiCaro]

What's the question?

[Gerald Keddy, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margaret's, NS]

With high expectations, young workers come out thinking they're going to become a doctor or a lawyer or a computer programmer, and there are only so many of those jobs available. They're steered away, unfortunately, I think, far too often from the skilled trades. I think parents are part of the problem in raising expectations.

How do we bring that back to balance? You can't go too far one way or the other, but there has to be a balance.

[Angelo DiCaro]

I'll respond, and if there's an answer in there somewhere that satisfies, we'll go from there.

At some level, I agree with what you said. We had a chat while you guys were gone, and there is some common ground in terms of—

[Gerald Keddy, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margaret's, NS]

I'm sure there is.

[Angelo DiCaro]

—some of the issues, especially around skilled trades and getting over the myth that there's something wrong about having a skilled trade job. Hopefully, we can explore that a bit more in depth.

You're raising anecdotally the experiences of some young people who think, “I'm better than taking on a part-time job.”

[Gerald Keddy, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margaret's, NS]

Absolutely.

[Angelo DiCaro]

Where I'm coming from with this issue, maybe also anecdotally—I still actually fit into the young worker profile, although way at the high end of it—but friends of mine and family members of mine really do want a job. They're willing to do whatever it is, but what's on offer to them seems to be a stream of short-term contracts, part-time. Even though they don't want to work part-time, that's what they have.

And then, even with those part-time jobs that they take on just to make ends meet, they have to stitch a few of them together. They're paid very low wages. That's where I think—

[Gerald Keddy, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margaret's, NS]

Here's where I want to stop you. The circumstances you've set up and the reference you used was that a generation ago, 21% of young people worked part-time, and today 48% work part-time. You mentioned that part of this was because of the quality of the job, retail, wholesale, hospitality.

In my generation, growing up in rural Canada, I can tell you that retail, wholesale, and hospitality didn't exist. They do exist today; those jobs are there. The labour-intensive jobs.... People milked cows by hand. They don't milk cows by hand anymore. I'm on the other end of that generation. I just want to reference that for future comment.

The other issue is the education system. We hear time and again that young people, young men and young women, are not being directed into the arts and sciences, that they're being directed into the humanities. Here's the statistic: 22% of community college students in Canada have university degrees. It's backwards to the way the system should be working.

I know I'm running out of time here, but let me say to the Canadian Chamber of Commerce concerning one of the comments made that maybe it's not guidance counsellors who should be directing young men and young women towards employment. Maybe we should have an employment counsellor. Again, that's not the answer, but it's part of it.

Please respond quickly. I know I'm—

[The Acting Chair, Conservative, Dave Van Kesteren]

You have 10 seconds.

[Voices]

Oh, oh!

[Sarah Anson-Cartwright]

Okay, thank you.

I agree entirely. I think any parent's preoccupation should be that their child be successful in whatever they pursue and that there be a job opportunity at the end of all their training and education. If we need to really bear down and better inform ourselves as to where the fit lies and where the opportunities are vis-à-vis your interests and your education, than let's do it, and in as intrusive a way as required, because that is what's needed here, I think.

[The Acting Chair, Conservative, Dave Van Kesteren]

Thank you.

Mr. Scarpaleggia.