Finance Committee on April 3rd, 2014

[Dianne Woloschuk]

Through the funding they receive from their department, the school boards make every effort possible to keep the programs. However, I couldn't tell you exactly which provinces do better.

[Guy Caron, NDP, Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC]

You mentioned the assistance provided by guidance counsellors. You also said that the program in Germany steers students at too young age, about 12 or 13.

When I was in school, there were technical courses in secondary 1 and 2, which is the same as Grade 7 and 8. This is probably still the case. Through these courses, we were able to see if a specific trade was going to interest us. In secondary 3, so the equivalent of Grade 9 or thereabouts, we could even take a long or short technical course.

There isn't much difference between Grade 7 and Grade 9. If the German model works, why not try to incorporate it and make our program more flexible?

[Dianne Woloschuk]

I think it is important for young people to have a good understanding of their skills and abilities as they grow up. There's nothing wrong with helping and supporting them as they explore various possibilities. It's certainly positive.

It's also possible in Grade 9 and 10 to take courses that are geared more toward the trades. The ability to develop that already exists. There are usually also programs in Grade 11 and 12 that give students the opportunity to be paired with an employer.

We mentioned previously that German students could attend school three days a week and then work for two. Some programs at my school let students attend their regular classes in the morning and then work in the afternoon for one term. They are prepared and are then paired with an employer.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

Thank you, Mr. Caron.

Mr. Van Kesteren, go ahead, please, for your round.

[Dave Van Kesteren, Conservative, Chatham-Kent—Essex, ON]

I thank you all for coming here. It's a fascinating discussion. I think all of us agree that this is probably one of the best engagements we've had, especially for the past few weeks.

Ms. Woloschuk, regarding the trade mission to Germany, did they invite the secondary school segment or was it basically a trade? Do you know whether or not they were invited?

[Dianne Woloschuk]

They did not to my knowledge, but I just don't know.

[Dave Van Kesteren, Conservative, Chatham-Kent—Essex, ON]

I don't hear that, and that's unfortunate.

We've been doing this every day, and yesterday we had an interesting scenario. We had to go and vote, and we came back to quite a mix of witnesses. We had the Federation of Independent Business, Confédération des syndicats nationaux, Merit Contractors Association, Progressive Contractors Association of Canada, and Unifor. Generally these guys are like oil and water, but it was amazing. We came back and they said they had had a great discussion.

I'll refer to an old song, “There's a New Day Dawning”. I think people see the need, and I really believe there's a willingness to work together collectively. I'm wondering if you're sensing that too. I won't just pick on you. I'm going to ask everybody if they're getting that kind of feeling.

In the eight years I've been here, there has been a really adversarial relationship between labour and management. It seems to be melting, and there seems to be a willingness. Am I just a dreamer, or is this something...?

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh!

[Dave Van Kesteren, Conservative, Chatham-Kent—Essex, ON]

I don't want a commentary. I want to just ask Mr. Smillie, please.

[Christopher Smillie]

The proof will be in the pudding if the Merit Contractors Association and the Progressive Contractors Association of Canada work with the building trades to train people in a non-partisan way and if they'll work with us and let us train their people through the Canada job grant. We have the training infrastructure with 150 training schools across Canada for the trades.

If those nice gentlemen from Merit Contractors Association and the Progressive Contractors Association of Canada will send us their employees to get their welding ticket or their carpentry ticket, a new day has dawned. If they won't, because they still fear us and want us not to exist in the unionized sector, then we're back to where we were.

We're willing, and we really want them to agree to take on apprentices. Those gentlemen who were here from the non-unionized sector tend not to hire as many apprentices as the unionized sector does.

[Dave Van Kesteren, Conservative, Chatham-Kent—Essex, ON]

I'll ask you a question because you were there.

In Germany, there is that collaboration between the unions, isn't there?

[Christopher Smillie]

Yes.

[Dave Van Kesteren, Conservative, Chatham-Kent—Essex, ON]

So there is a model. We don't have to reinvent the wheel.

[Christopher Smillie]

No, we don't.

[Dave Van Kesteren, Conservative, Chatham-Kent—Essex, ON]

We're not Germans. We're Canadians, and I know we have a different history and probably a different starting point, but generally you agree that it can be done.

[Christopher Smillie]

Everybody sits at a table like this in Stuttgart, in Dusseldorf, or in Berlin, and they decide what's going to happen in industry. It doesn't matter what your political leanings are; it's about the economy.

[Dave Van Kesteren, Conservative, Chatham-Kent—Essex, ON]

Ms. Woloschuk, what do you think?

The other problem thing—and we've heard this repeatedly—is that the biggest problem we have in this country is that we have an easier time trading with other countries than we do among the provinces. There's that jealous guarding of jurisdiction.

Do you think there is a willingness in the school boards to maybe start looking at this on a national scope?

[Dianne Woloschuk]

I can't speak for the school boards, but I do know that teacher organizations are very interested in maintaining positive working relationships with the school boards in their provinces and territories, and also with their ministries of education and their governments. If we can work together to identify the issues that need to be addressed, then seek solutions together and work on achieving them together, then that to me is the most effective way of getting things to happen and getting things to change in a positive way.

[Dave Van Kesteren, Conservative, Chatham-Kent—Essex, ON]

Mr. Chair, how much time do I have?

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

You have two and a half minutes.

[Dave Van Kesteren, Conservative, Chatham-Kent—Essex, ON]

I'm going to be a dreamer again because first of all I want to ask Ms. Reynolds about the question that was raised, and all of us recognize that something has to be done in the pension area.

Can you afford an increase in the CPP tax as a restaurant association? If we're going to do this, obviously the money has to come from somewhere. Can your organization—

[Joyce Reynolds]

We think there are alternatives to expanding the CPP that will achieve the same purposes, and we would like to see some of the provinces get on board with the voluntary structure that was put in place a couple of years ago.

One of the things—I didn't finish responding to Mr. Brison—for our entry-level workers who are working part time as they are going through school is that the worst five years of your CPP contributions are not included when it comes to determining your pension at retirement age. Therefore, they don't want to have those first few years where they are earning very little to be.... They would rather have their other earning years not included in part of the part of the CPP program.

[Dave Van Kesteren, Conservative, Chatham-Kent—Essex, ON]

Very quickly, as I don't have much time with this, I have this crazy idea and I've shared this with some people. I don't know if people realize this, but if we took all of our contributions to the CPP, if we took all the public sector contributions, if we took all of the OAS and the GIS and lumped them all into one big pile, every Canadian worker would get about $24,000 a year.

Shouldn't we start talking about something like that? We all want a good, fair pension for everybody. Is that something we should start to discuss?

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

Who was this for?

[Dave Van Kesteren, Conservative, Chatham-Kent—Essex, ON]

It's for anybody who wants to take a crack at it.