Finance Committee on Oct. 1st, 2014

[Merran Smith]

No, I don't. I think we have been very focused on our fossil-based energy systems and have not put that same kind of attention into clean energy.

We do have a relatively clean grid compared to the rest of the world because of our endowment of hydro resources, but we could be doing much better. That is my real message here today. We could be doing significantly better. We have the renewable energy resources and we have the innovation and the businesses that could become leaders in those technologies and services to export to this growing, booming clean energy industry.

[Scott Brison, Liberal, Kings—Hants, NS]

You spoke to energy efficiency as a priority as well. Did the eco-energy grants that the federal government used to have, which were subsequently cancelled, help create incentives for households to green their homes and cut their energy consumption? Were they effective?

[Merran Smith]

Yes, it was a very effective program. It had significant uptake, and it would be great to see it restored.

[Scott Brison, Liberal, Kings—Hants, NS]

Thank you.

The forestry industry is an example of a traditional industry that has greened its operations. Is there not potential to see a similar cleaner conventional energy industry? Would you be willing to partner with the fossil fuel industry to work together on seeing advancement in cleaner conventional industry, recognizing that conventional energy will continue to be a significant part of global supply?

[Merran Smith]

Sorry, I thought you were directing this to Catherine.

[Scott Brison, Liberal, Kings—Hants, NS]

I'm asking you whether you would see potential in cleaner conventional energy as part of the clean mix.

[Merran Smith]

Absolutely. We believe that fossil fuels are going to be part of the mix for a fair bit of time to come, and we need to clean them up as much as we can. We need to reduce the carbon footprint in particular, as well as the water and other environmental aspects not only of the oil sands, which get a lot of attention, but also of the growing natural gas industry, which is coming.

[Scott Brison, Liberal, Kings—Hants, NS]

Mr. Lambert, the FCM recently stated that the proposed new federal waste water regulations will require cities to rebuild one in four of the country's waste water systems. Are municipalities receiving enough support from the federal government to finance these upgrades?

[Gord Lambert]

Just to scale the challenge for you, in 2012 the installed municipal waste treatment facilities were about $370 billion, and about an $80-billion gap exists to expand those facilities to meet future needs, based on a 2012 estimate. In that regard, the application of science to make sure that whatever form these facilities take is well designed and that they're going to produce the water outcomes we require in the most economically efficient manner does require the application of best practices and science. We've already been able to save municipalities well over $100 million just through collaborating and convening with them to develop standards of treatment that are more effective.

[Scott Brison, Liberal, Kings—Hants, NS]

What kind of jobs potential would your proposal for infrastructure renewal and water treatment modernization have across the country? Is there potential in exportable technologies that can create different sorts of jobs and value-added jobs for young Canadians?

[Gord Lambert]

Our focus in the Canadian Water Network is building the capacity among our professional and scientific practitioners in water. We know that our expertise that has been developed, even so far with the water network in its current form, is very world class. We do see it as having tremendous value to take what we learn and to go internationally and out to other jurisdictions with it.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

Ms. Smith wants to comment.

Very briefly, please.

[Merran Smith]

I meant to mention this earlier. We've actually added up the jobs in the clean energy sector, and there are over 23,000 direct jobs in the clean energy sector. Just to compare that, there are 22,000 and change in oil sands direct employment. So there's significant employment in the energy sector now.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

Thank you.

Thank you very much, Mr. Brison.

We'll go to Mr. Keddy.

[Gerald Keddy, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margaret's, NS]

Welcome to our witnesses. This discussion is interesting so far.

Ms. Smith, you used the number of 65% renewable energy being used in Canada today. That's a lower number than the last number I heard, which was 77%. How do we base that?

[Merran Smith]

My number of 65% is renewable energy in the electricity system. We're just talking about the electricity system. I'll search through my notes and get for you where that stat comes from. I believe it comes from Natural Resources Canada.

[Gerald Keddy, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margaret's, NS]

That's fine. You can give me that later, but all of the renewable energy together is greater than 65%, I'm expecting, in the grid, and that's not counting renewable energy that we're exporting, either as natural gas or as electricity through the U.S. It's still made in Canada.

[Merran Smith]

Just to clarify, natural gas is a fossil fuel, so it does not classify as renewable energy.

[Gerald Keddy, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margaret's, NS]

Understood, but it's quite a bit cleaner than coal the last time I checked.

[Merran Smith]

It is cleaner than coal, but it is a fossil fuel.

[Gerald Keddy, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margaret's, NS]

One of the comments you made was about a solar energy program for domestic builds and commercial builds. One of the frustrations I've seen is that we've never started at the bottom of that equation. We always start at the top. You go to China, where there's immense building going on and solar energy wherever you look, and they're retrofitting the roofs on all their buildings so they're on the right angle.

Have you folks done anything to talk to our builders so that you build the pitch of your house facing the right direction and you get southern exposure and also so it's the right pitch already when you perhaps put solar panels on that roof at some point? That's so, number one, it really isn't a major retrofit, and number two, it's pleasing to the eye, if you will.

[Merran Smith]

That's exactly it. That's the recommendation in our first recommendation for the capital class allowance 43.1 and 43.2. It's for investment to make buildings solar-panel ready. What that means is exactly what you're saying: the right pitch and the right angle. You might not be putting the solar panels on right now, but you actually invest when you're building the house so it's set up.

[Gerald Keddy, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margaret's, NS]

You're not suggesting that we actually give some type of tax rebate to do that now, are you? For the person who's thinking they may want to use solar energy down the road, it doesn't cost them any more to change the pitch of the roof, or it costs them pennies when they're building, to make it more aesthetically appealing to them. I think you could do that in a recommendation without a budget ask, quite frankly.

On the Canadian Water Network, first of all I want to say that you guys are being smart. You have a diverse group representing all segments of the country and all segments of the economy. This is a public resource so we need to be fair and equitable in how we use it.

One of the issues that we talk about a lot here is how we deal with public water, waste water, and sewage. For the life of me, I can't understand.... I do have a bias, because living as I do in rural Canada, like Mr. Brison over there, you dig your own well, pay for your own septic tank, and if you do something wrong, you're shut down tomorrow, no ifs, ands, or buts. You will spend $20,000 or $30,000 to correct that mistake.

Have we looked at the end users in urban Canada to simply say to them that they have a responsibility here, not government?

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

You have about a minute for a brief response, please, Mr. Lambert.

[Gord Lambert]

I would certainly agree that we need effective regulation that's properly enforced to protect the public interest, but that regulation also needs to be informed by sound science. The Canadian Water Network is helping to translate that science into new best practices that inform even better regulation going forward.