Evidence of meeting #56 for Finance in the 41st Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site.) The winning word was measure.
A video is available from Parliament.
4:50 p.m.
Chief, Labour, Market Employment Learning, Department of Finance
Yes. The only caution is that my comment has to do with on average across the economy; it's very difficult to speculate on the specifics of one very particular business. On balance, across the economy, yes, we are expecting that this measure will not create disincentives for growth.
4:50 p.m.
Conservative
4:50 p.m.
Conservative
Andrew Saxton Conservative North Vancouver, BC
I have some other questions, but on a different division. Is this simply division 14?
4:50 p.m.
Conservative
4:50 p.m.
Liberal
Scott Brison Liberal Kings—Hants, NS
So you're saying that there has been no internal analysis by the department on how many jobs this credit is expected to create.
4:50 p.m.
Chief, Labour, Market Employment Learning, Department of Finance
I would want to be very careful in qualifying that of course there has been analysis and there have been recommendations made by the department. On the very specific question about whether or not the Department of Finance produced a jobs number estimate, I can confirm that we did not produce a specific jobs number estimate for that measure, but we did conduct the regular analysis that we would do with most policy measures.
4:50 p.m.
Liberal
4:50 p.m.
Chief, Labour, Market Employment Learning, Department of Finance
I'm sorry...?
4:50 p.m.
Liberal
Scott Brison Liberal Kings—Hants, NS
Have you evaluated or studied or analyzed the methodology used by the CFIB?
4:50 p.m.
Chief, Labour, Market Employment Learning, Department of Finance
No, we have not.
4:50 p.m.
Liberal
Scott Brison Liberal Kings—Hants, NS
No. So when an organization that sells memberships to businesses, or any other membership-based organization, comes up with a figure like that, do you embrace that figure as being accurate without having analyzed the methodology?
4:50 p.m.
Chief, Labour, Market Employment Learning, Department of Finance
I wouldn't characterize the Department of Finance as having embraced or endorsed a figure from an outside organization.
4:50 p.m.
Liberal
Scott Brison Liberal Kings—Hants, NS
You do understand that it's highly unusual for.... It's not unusual for politicians to necessarily cite one organization's opinion or another's, but it's highly unusual for public servants to do so.
4:55 p.m.
Chief, Labour, Market Employment Learning, Department of Finance
It may be. That's something I couldn't comment on.
4:55 p.m.
Liberal
Scott Brison Liberal Kings—Hants, NS
Have you analyzed the methodology used by the PBO? The CFIB is saying 25,000 jobs; the PBO is saying 800. Have you compared or contrasted their methodologies to try to understand the efficacy of this new measure?
4:55 p.m.
Chief, Labour, Market Employment Learning, Department of Finance
No, we have not.
4:55 p.m.
Liberal
Scott Brison Liberal Kings—Hants, NS
Okay.
Can you provide us with the number of Canadian businesses that paid between $14,000 and $16,000 in EI premiums last year?
4:55 p.m.
Chief, Labour, Market Employment Learning, Department of Finance
The number I have is for the number of Canadian businesses that we're expecting will pay between one dollar and $15,000 in EI premiums next year. That estimate is 780,000 businesses.
4:55 p.m.
Liberal
Scott Brison Liberal Kings—Hants, NS
Can you provide us with the number of Canadian businesses that paid between $14,000 and $16,000 in EI premiums last year?
4:55 p.m.
Chief, Labour, Market Employment Learning, Department of Finance
I certainly think we can, yes. I'll just take down a note on that.
4:55 p.m.
Liberal
Scott Brison Liberal Kings—Hants, NS
If there is a disincentive trigger at $15,000, it would be helpful to understand the quantum of businesses that might be affected.
In terms of the mechanism, if a business were in that range, and let's say the business had qualified for some new hires but then hit the $15,000 within the same year, it would lose all the incentives. The quantity is around $2,200, I think, in actual loss if they were to have triggered that or hit the $15,000.
4:55 p.m.
Chief, Labour, Market Employment Learning, Department of Finance
I'd be happy to provide examples.
Let's look at the very high end, for example. A business paying 25 employees $20,000 a year would pay a total of $13,160 in EI premiums. They would be eligible for the credit. They would qualify for a credit of $1,960. It goes a little bit higher, to the low $2,000 range, and that would be the maximum amount for it.
