Evidence of meeting #59 for Finance in the 41st Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was unions.
A video is available from Parliament.
NDP
Nathan Cullen NDP Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC
Were there any consultations that you are aware of when the federal government decided to change the tax policy?
President and Chief Executive Officer, Credit Union Central of Canada
My understanding is that there weren't.
NDP
Nathan Cullen NDP Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC
Were there any consultations with regard to this change to how credit unions work in Canada?
President and Chief Executive Officer, Credit Union Central of Canada
My understanding is that there have not been.
Nathan Cullen NDP Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC
Right.
In your comments you made reference to the fact that credit unions are very good with small businesses.
President and Chief Executive Officer, Credit Union Central of Canada
That's right.
NDP
Nathan Cullen NDP Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC
They are proportionally better than the chartered banks.
President and Chief Executive Officer, Credit Union Central of Canada
That's our view.
NDP
President and Chief Executive Officer, Credit Union Central of Canada
Yes. We are larger lenders to small business—proportionally.
NDP
Nathan Cullen NDP Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC
You're better, more effective lenders, particularly focused on small and medium-sized businesses in Canada. Is that a fair assessment, backed up by evidence?
President and Chief Executive Officer, Credit Union Central of Canada
That's a fair assessment.
NDP
Nathan Cullen NDP Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC
It seems strange to me then that with your being the part of the financial sector that is the best at helping stir small business innovation, development and enhancement, creating those jobs—the government continually says small businesses are the ones that are the great job creators—for two years in a row now, you haven't been consulted by the federal government; first, on how you're taxed, making it more punishing; and second, on a basic governance model.
Are either of these measures the Conservatives have chosen to do enhancing your ability to help small businesses?
President and Chief Executive Officer, Credit Union Central of Canada
The way I'll address that is to say that's why we're here today, to ask for more time in terms of the implementation of Bill C-43 and when the clock starts.
NDP
Nathan Cullen NDP Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC
Is there a risk if it's implemented in a rush, if these changes happen without that delay that you're asking for? Is there an effect on the credit unions?
President and Chief Executive Officer, Credit Union Central of Canada
The credit unions need time. As a system, we need time to understand the impact of these changes and to make the necessary changes, some of which may be legislative changes at the provincial level to adjust to that new environment.
NDP
Nathan Cullen NDP Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC
By the way, we enjoy our conversations with the CFIB. We just don't want the federal government to outsource policy-making to a business lobby group, as they wouldn't to any other lobby group.
This is to Mr. Yussuff, specifically about the outsourcing that was done on this $550-million raid on the employment insurance program. I'm not sure if you were here while the minister was here. We asked the direct question. We've asked the finance department if they did any analysis of the impact on jobs, and at every occasion they said they relied on a business lobby group's estimate or they said flatly, “No, we have not done an analysis.”
What is the concern about using the employment insurance fund this way, when the government doesn't even bother to raise a pen or calculator to figure out what the impact may or may not be?
President, Canadian Labour Congress
First and foremost, in the EI program, as you know, workers pay 50% of the premium and so do the employers. In the context of choosing one side over the other, it seems reprehensible that workers would not even be considered in terms of how this would impact them. When you look at the benefit level that workers are receiving currently, with the current rules that exist for EI, this is fundamentally blatantly flawed. In Toronto, to use one example, 17% of the unemployed get benefits, and 83% get no benefits.
At a time when there are huge challenges going on in the city in terms of skills needed and what have you, there has been no consultation with us with regard to this policy change, much less with workers as a group with regard to how this might impact them.
NDP
Nathan Cullen NDP Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC
The minister claimed earlier that the reason they used CFIB for their so-called analysis on their job creation scheme was because they're the experts in small business. You're the experts on workers and what happens when workers lose jobs or need to get back into the field, which would be a preoccupation considering we've lost 400,000 manufacturing jobs that haven't been replaced.
What enhancements could we do to help the Canadian economy and the actual workers, employed and unemployed, in that economy?
President, Canadian Labour Congress
As you know, there's an expectation when you lose your job that you're going to get benefits if you've paid into the system, and it is unfortunate, given the rules that currently exist, that workers can't even access benefits, which accounts for the 17% in Toronto.
In addition to that there is a real systemic challenge in the country with regard to training. We have a huge training challenge in this country, and we need to put more money into training and to figure out how we can get employers to participate in the program in terms of training. Of course, we're seeing that challenge remain year after year. It's not helping productivity in any way, neither is it helping workers who have lost their jobs to get back into the job market.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative James Rajotte
Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. Cullen.
We'll go to Mr. Saxton, please.
Conservative
Andrew Saxton Conservative North Vancouver, BC
Thank you, Chair, and thanks to our witnesses for being here today.
My first questions are for Credit Union Central, Ms. Durdin.
Economic action plan 2014 proposes to improve and clarify the federal regime for credit unions. In your opinion, how will Bill C-43 help to clarify federal regulation in respect to provincial credit union centrals that want to be federally regulated?
President and Chief Executive Officer, Credit Union Central of Canada
The impact of Bill C-43 and the changes are, from what the government has told us, to clarify the roles of provincial jurisdiction and federal jurisdiction. That is the impact of the changes.
The impact on the centrals is still to be defined. We're working through that process to understand what changes need to be made to accommodate that change. It's difficult to say at this point because we're still responding to the technical paper and trying to understand what needs to be done.
Conservative
Andrew Saxton Conservative North Vancouver, BC
In your opinion, how will the measures in Bill C-43 help streamline the process, specifically for amalgamations, and providing choice and stability for consumers?
President and Chief Executive Officer, Credit Union Central of Canada
I don't actually think there will be any impact on the process for amalgamations. The choice for credit unions to go federal, if that's your question, if they're to go into the federal sphere, is a difficult choice. I don't think the two are really related.