Finance Committee on Nov. 21st, 2013

[Jayson Columbus]

From the sources that we looked into, the different brokers in the west, in B.C., as well as into the east, even in the Ontario Tender Fruit Producers Marketing Board, we've had confirmation, specifically from the Ontario board, that none exists. In B.C. we know there is a supplier, but it's very unreliable for the commercial quantities required.

[Gerald Keddy, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margaret's, NS]

You don't intend upon squeezing your own apples.

[Jayson Columbus]

We're not a cottage cidery where we can go out and do that kind of thing. We rely on the production from the actual producers, the orchardists that will squeeze the apples and produce the concentrate on our behalf.

[Gerald Keddy, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margaret's, NS]

Well, I think you have to go a little further east. The east doesn't stop at Ontario.

[Jayson Columbus]

Understood. Thank you.

[Gerald Keddy, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margaret's, NS]

If there is an excise tax on that, it's something I think we could certainly look at. I think you need a little more explanation and little more depth to your request when you put it to us.

The other area I want to go into is with Mr. Atkinson. I want to specifically talk about the apprenticeship training. There are some very similar comments coming from all of our witnesses here today. As a member of this committee I certainly appreciate that, because it tells us there are some areas where we need to improve and there are some concerns coming from across the country, from various and related groups, that are similar.

On the apprenticeship training, you talk about the fact that we were forced to make the apprenticeship dollars, $1,000 per apprentice, taxable, but you don't explain that it's not taxable for the full amount. Did I get that wrong?

[Michael Atkinson]

Yes. I'm talking about the tax credit for employers. We don't think it's effective enough.

[Gerald Keddy, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margaret's, NS]

You're claiming that as income in the following year.

[Michael Atkinson]

Correct.

[Gerald Keddy, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margaret's, NS]

You're taxed at your low business tax rate. You're not taxed 100% of it back.

[Michael Atkinson]

No, that's true, but you still have to take it back in. Also, we think the credit is limited in the sense that it only applies to Red Seal trades; it doesn't apply to provincially regulated trades. Also, it's for first-year and second-year apprentices only. We understand that.

We're asking that it be looked at to ensure it's doing what it was intended to do.

[Gerald Keddy, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margaret's, NS]

To be clear, it's not all being hauled back. You're paying at 15%, or something.

[Michael Atkinson]

The full amount of the credit has to be brought back into income.

[Gerald Keddy, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margaret's, NS]

I appreciate that.

The other comment you made about the apprenticeship program was that there were a number of other areas where you thought it should apply outside of the Red Seal programs.

[Michael Atkinson]

Correct.

[Gerald Keddy, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margaret's, NS]

What specifically are those?

[Michael Atkinson]

They are provincially regulated trades that aren't Red Seal trades.

[Gerald Keddy, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margaret's, NS]

Which ones are they?

[Michael Atkinson]

There are a ton of them. Off the top of my head—

[Gerald Keddy, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margaret's, NS]

Give me examples.

[Michael Atkinson]

That could be a problem for me right now.

[Gerald Keddy, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margaret's, NS]

You can get back to us on it.

[Michael Atkinson]

Absolutely.

There are only some 40 Red Seal trades, and there are many more—

[Gerald Keddy, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margaret's, NS]

The other comment made was—and this is the difficulty with the Red Seal trades—about moving from jurisdiction to jurisdiction, if you're trained in Quebec and you move to Alberta, or if you're trained in Nova Scotia and you move to Newfoundland or Alberta, but you can challenge as well. If you have your hours in, you have the ability as an individual simply to challenge and write the exam.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Rajotte]

Be very brief.