Finance Committee on Feb. 4th, 2016

[Steven MacKinnon, Liberal, Gatineau, QC]

I don't have the language of the motion before me, but I think, as my colleague says, we're in general agreement. There's just some prescriptive language in the motion that I think we could probably do away with. I think a simple invitation to the Minister of Finance would suffice. Needless to say, members of the committee can ask him about whatever they'd like to ask him about. Given the timing, there's no question that pre-budget issues will be top of mind, but I think a simple invitation to the minister would suffice.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Now—and we'll likely have a discussion on this—I believe Mr. Champagne, the parliamentary secretary, has offered to add something. Is that okay with committee members? He's not officially a member of the committee. Are we okay?

Mr. Caron.

[Guy Caron, NDP, Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC]

I'd like to speak as a committee member, if possible, before we hear from observers. Even though we are very glad to have the parliamentary secretary here to contribute to the work of the Standing Committee on Finance, there's something I'd like to raise first, if I may.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

He would be an observer, yes.

[Guy Caron, NDP, Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC]

Yes. As a standing member, can I actually be allowed to speak first?

[François-Philippe Champagne, Liberal, Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC]

I have no problem with that, Mr. Chair. If my colleague wishes to speak first, it would be my pleasure to listen.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Okay.

Mr. McColeman, you wanted to speak first, and then we'll go to Mr. Champagne if we're agreed.

[Phil McColeman, Conservative, Brantford—Brant, ON]

Sure.

I first want to clarify the motion, to be as clear as we can, because of what Mr. MacKinnon said regarding it being prescriptive.

It is prescriptive in the sense that we need to engage as quickly as possible and mobilize as quickly as possible in pre-budget consultations for a lot of voices in this country that have not at this point had the opportunity to weigh in with their thoughts on what should be in the budget. It's a simple fact. As in past committees, when you embark as a committee upon a particular subject matter, the minister typically is your first witness, and the government officials.

In response, as well, to Mr. Ouellette on inviting additional people, that won't naturally follow, because we will be seized with inviting and submitting lists of people who we think are important to hear from. As the mover of the motion, I don't think I'd be agreeable to adding other groups at this point, because that will follow immediately following the minister. We don't want to confuse the purpose of our first meeting, which is to hear from the minister and his officials. We don't want to add people into that. We want to hear specifically from them. They lead the way on this, and then the other groups follow. That might be the PBO immediately after or it might be others; it will be others, if we go down this road.

To the chair's comments about the minister's schedule, it's totally understandable. They're very busy and such, but we needed to get on with this yesterday. In my view, if the committee needs to reorganize its meeting schedule to accommodate the minister, I think the committee should do that. I think the committee should say, “We need the minister now and whatever the minister's schedule is, then we as a committee will attempt to accommodate him so that we can get on with our work.”

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

We have copies of the motion, but the motion is in English only. We would need the consent of the committee to distribute it, because it is in English only and it should be translated into both languages.

Do I have unanimous permission to hand out the motion in English?

[Guy Caron, NDP, Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC]

Before the vote, can we take a five-minute recess?

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Mr. MacKinnon.

[Steven MacKinnon, Liberal, Gatineau, QC]

On a point of order, Mr. Chair, I simply want to point out that I'm sure we can come to some sort of agreement without any prolonged procedural wrangling. I think we'd rapidly find consensus if we—

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

I don't think that's a point of order.

[Guy Caron, NDP, Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC]

I'd like to get a five-minute recess, if possible, to consider the question.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

We can suspend for five minutes, if there's agreement.

[Some hon. members]

Agreed.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Okay. We'll suspend for five minutes.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

We'll come back to order.

Mr. McColeman, I'll turn the floor over to you first.

[Phil McColeman, Conservative, Brantford—Brant, ON]

Thank you.

I would say that it has been a good discussion. I will withdraw my motion, which was previously proposed, and propose that we have an open discussion based on the previous discussions while we were out of order, which I'll leave up to Mr. MacKinnon to articulate.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Go ahead, Mr. MacKinnon.

[Steven MacKinnon, Liberal, Gatineau, QC]

If it is the pleasure of the committee, we will ask the clerk to invite certain witnesses for the purposes of pre-budget consultations, appearing as early as February 16. Breaking with the norm, we will invite the minister. On February 18, at our regular meeting, he will appear with whomever he wishes to bring and and tell us whatever he wishes to tell us. Pre-budget consultations will continue after that and take however much time is needed. I think that sums it up.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Are we saying a regular two-hour meeting on the Tuesday? What we talked about in our discussions was that we're running out of time as the budget will soon be prepared. As a committee, we want to be fair to the witnesses and to allow the analysts and the Library of Parliament the time to put together what the committee hears and the committee-approved recommendations and the evidence, and ensure that it's done in a fashion that at least has some input into the budget. Our problem is that we're rapidly running out of time.

Would we want to do extended hours on Tuesday the 16th, maybe meet for extended hours on Wednesday, extended hours on Thursday, and hold that two-hour session on the Thursday open to the minister and officials, and hear pre-budget submissions from Canadians and organizations during the other time frame? Is that what we're hearing?

Mr. McColeman.

[Phil McColeman, Conservative, Brantford—Brant, ON]

Yes, I think you've captured the intent.

If necessary I would suggest that we meet every day that week for three-hour meetings, which would extend our normal sitting time. It would be an extra hour to listen to those people who would love to come and give us their pre-budget views, and that we submit those witness lists as quickly as possible.

I have no illusions. I know this is going to put a big stress on our clerk and staff to make this happen, but we need to giddy up and I would ask, through you, Mr. Chair, that we encourage a very speedy process to come to that report afterwards as well. I would like, perhaps through you, to meet with the support staff on this committee to see how fast we might be able to get that done.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

I have one other question.

I haven't been on the finance committee—I've sat in I think a couple of times—and I don't think we can do it nearly as extensively as the previous committees have done because we have a time frame. I would ask the clerk or the analysts, what are the types of hours that the finance committee has met in the past to accommodate witnesses in an intensive way? Can anybody give me that information?

Go ahead.

[Christine Lafrance, Legislative Clerk]

I used to be the clerk of the finance committee.

The finance committee usually had three-hour meetings, two panels per meeting, so it was a 90-minute panel, composed of six witnesses per panel.