Finance Committee on Sept. 19th, 2017

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

I'll call the meeting to order.

Pursuant to Standing Order 106(2), I think we should first elect a vice-chair, because we lost our vice-chair from the Conservative Party. That will be the first order of business.

Before we get to that, I want to welcome all the new committee members to the committee, and the former committee members back again. We have a lot of work to do with pre-budget consultations already scheduled, and there may be the odd other issue coming up along the way.

I would like to deal with the vice-chair. Is that the way you want to go, so we have things organized?

Pierre.

[Pierre Poilievre, Conservative, Carleton, ON]

Yes, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Okay.

I'll turn it over to the clerk.

[The Clerk of the Committee, Ms. Suzie Cadieux]

Pursuant to Standing Order 106(2), the first vice-chair must be a member of the official opposition.

I'm now prepared to receive motions for the first vice-chair.

[Dan Albas, Conservative, Central Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola, BC]

In the order of good process, I nominate Mr. Pierre Poilievre. I think he'll do fine.

[The Clerk]

Mr. Albas moves that Pierre Poilievre be elected vice-chair of the committee.

Are there any further motions?

Is it the pleasure of the committee to adopt the motion?

(Motion agreed to)

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Congratulations, Mr. Poilievre, as first vice-chair of the committee.

Seeing as this is the first meeting on pre-budget consultations in advance of the 2018 budget, I would like to explain to all committee members what has been decided to date. I think everyone knows that the finance committee, by legislation, is to do pre-budget consultations prior to the budget in the next fiscal year. In this case, we put out a letter in June inviting submissions. Those submissions came in by early August. Then, in June as well, we agreed to an established set of hearings in Ottawa and at a number of locations in the west and in the east. From that, we will have to prepare a report that has to be tabled in the House sometime in December. That's basically the process, for those who are not aware.

The committee on these pre-budget consultations decided to invite departmental officials, which is a little different than last year, to give an outline of the situation in Canada to help members guide their questions for witnesses in future meetings. Finance officials will start with a brief opening statement to set the stage and explain Canada's current situation. Officials from Innovation, Science and Economic Development Canada, or ISED—I still call it Industry Canada, but I'm old-fashioned—will then provide an overview of programs and initiatives currently available related to the first theme, which is productivity and competitiveness of Canadian businesses. Officials from ISED will then answer members' questions with the support of the finance officials who are here.

In the second panel, officials from Employment and Social Development Canada will provide an overview of the current initiatives and programming related to the second theme, Canada's productivity.

Our strategy was really to set the stage on the main themes we're looking at for the budget. One, what is the fiscal situation? Two, what is happening to make the country more productive and competitive in terms of programming from the departments involved?

It's important to note that if committee members ask questions that are not related to the main themes for this year's pre-budget consultations, the officials present might not be able to answer those questions. I know there are a number of other hot topics. That's why I am raising that point now. It think there will be other opportunities to raise those topics, but I would like us to start with a good foundation to establish the basis on which we hold pre-budget consultations.

Starting with the Department of Finance, we have Mr. Leswick, assistant deputy minister at the economic and fiscal policy branch; Mr. King, director of economic analysis and forecasting; and Mr. Lavoie, director of the economic studies and policy analysis division at the economic and fiscal policy branch.

From ISED, we have Ms. Setlakwe, assistant deputy minister in the strategy and innovation policy sector, and Ms. Campbell, director general of the digital transformation service sector.

Do you have a point you want to raise, Mr. Fergus?

[Greg Fergus, Liberal, Hull—Aylmer, QC]

It's not a point of order, but I would seek unanimous consent of all members of the finance committee to lift off the table a motion that has been written down but otherwise, if we were to go without unanimous consent, would not be considered until Thursday. The reason why I would lift it off is the time sensitivity of it.

Mr. Chair, the motion would read:

That during the week of September 25 to 29, 2017, the Committee hold two (2) meetings to hear from witnesses on the tax fairness measures proposed by the Minister of Finance on July 18, 2017; the Committee invite the Honourable Bill Morneau, Minister of Finance, to appear during a third meeting on the study; and that the lists of proposed witnesses be submitted to the Clerk no later than Thursday, September 21, 2017 at 4:00 p.m.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Okay.

We had a motion from Mr. Deltell as well as a motion from Mr. Fergus. Mr. Deltell's motion was replaced by one from Mr. Poilievre. Both motions are really relating to the same issue.

To the committee, the motions can be dealt with at the next meeting, which will be the 48 hours. To deal with this motion, we need unanimous consent. Is there unanimous consent to deal with it, to debate this motion?

[Pierre Poilievre, Conservative, Carleton, ON]

Mr. Chair, I wonder why the motion from Mr. Deltell, which I will shepherd forward as his replacement on this committee, is not being dealt with before the one that Mr. Fergus has now moved.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

They're both on the agenda. A member can lift a motion at any time. We prefer that they not be lifted when we have witnesses, but that's the procedure. A member can lift a motion when they see fit, by moving it, and that's what's happening here. It's not in any order of priority.

I would note that they're substantially the same, with the exception that Mr. Fergus's motion says that there be basically three meetings, one that the Minister of Finance would be at, and the Conservative motion doesn't indicate how many meetings. For either of the two, unanimous consent would be required.

The unanimous consent is to discuss the motion. If there is not unanimous consent, then it will have to be the 48 hours' notice. I think that would happen on Thursday. We can't do it at an irregular meeting. It would have to be a regular meeting—unless there's unanimous consent.

It's been raised. It's been requested. Is there unanimous consent?

[Pierre Poilievre, Conservative, Carleton, ON]

Mr. Chair, I wonder if the motion that Mr. Deltell submitted might be considered first for unanimous consent, given that it was submitted first.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

I'll have to ask the clerk for her opinion on that. I don't even know if it was considered first.

Mr. Poilievre, it doesn't matter in what order they are received. It's when they're brought up at committee. That's the rule, or the advice from the clerk.

[Jennifer O'Connell, Liberal, Pickering—Uxbridge, ON]

Mr. Chair, can I ask for a recorded vote on unanimous consent?

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Well, yes, you can have a recorded vote. If you ask, we'll have it.

Is there unanimous consent then? We'll go to the vote.

[The Clerk]

No, it's whether there's unanimous consent to consider—

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Yes.

Is there unanimous consent to consider the motion?

[Some hon. members]

Agreed.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Okay. We'll go to debate on the motion.

Mr. Fergus, go ahead on your motion. Then I have Mr. Poilievre.

[Greg Fergus, Liberal, Hull—Aylmer, QC]

Thank you.

First of all, I'd like to thank all members of the committee, on all sides, for giving unanimous consent for us to have this debate.

It seems that this is in the air, of course. This is an important matter that has been brought up. It's an important proposal that has been brought forward by the Minister of Finance to address the question of tax fairness. It is no surprise to any member around this table that there are folks who feel strongly in favour of this and there are also some folks who have strong opinions against this.

Mr. Chair, there is no doubt that these proposals have captured the general interest of Canadians, as shown by the high number of people submitting comments to the Minister of Finance. Furthermore, since we returned yesterday to the House of Commons, members on both sides have expressed interest in debating this issue.

In this case, it seems entirely normal to me that the Standing Committee on Finance would take the opportunity to study this matter appropriately and ask the Minister of Finance and his colleagues to appear here to answer questions so that all the MPs here could have the opportunity to fully represent their constituents and strengthen their understanding.

Canadians have a say in the Minister of Finance's consultations. The minister is listening to Canadians and business people across the country. As members of Parliament and members of the Standing Committee on Finance, it is important that we have the opportunity to ask questions and deepen our knowledge on this issue. I hope we can do that.

The study of these questions will end on October 2. Time is running out, and I hope that by Thursday we can prepare and submit our witness lists. We will have meetings next week, and this committee will have a busy week. We had already scheduled three meetings, and I am asking for three more.

It is a privilege to be a member of the Standing Committee on Finance, and I am confident that we are all going to do our part.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Thank you, Mr. Fergus.

Mr. Poilievre.

[Pierre Poilievre, Conservative, Carleton, ON]

This is just a point of clarification, Mr. Chair.

The motion calls, does it, for a total of two meetings to hear witnesses with regard to the tax increases that the finance minister has proposed?

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

As I understand it, it's a total of two plus the minister.

[Greg Fergus, Liberal, Hull—Aylmer, QC]

That is correct.

[Pierre Poilievre, Conservative, Carleton, ON]

We have, then, two meetings to hear from witnesses.