Evidence of meeting #105 for Finance in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was rail.

A video is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Michael Atkinson  President, Canadian Construction Association
Patrick Leclerc  President and Chief Executive Officer, Canadian Urban Transit Association
Harriett McLachlan  Acting Deputy Director, Canada Without Poverty
Michèle Biss  Legal Education and Outreach Coordinator, Canada Without Poverty
Timothy Ross  Director, Strategic Affairs, Co-operative Housing Federation of Canada
Douglas Wong  Program Manager, Policy and Government Relations, Co-operative Housing Federation of Canada
Jeffrey Wichtel  President, Dean, Ontario Veterinary College, Association of Canadian Faculties of Agriculture and Veterinary Medicine
Jean-Claude Dufour  President Elect, Dean, Laval University, Association of Canadian Faculties of Agriculture and Veterinary Medicine
C.J. Helie  Executive Vice-President, Spirits Canada
Geneviève Moineau  President and Chief Executive Officer, Association of Faculties of Medicine of Canada
Peter Coleridge  National President and Chief Executive Officer, Big Brothers Big Sisters of Canada
Stephanie Deschenes  Executive Director, Canadian Association of Science Centres
Hassan Yussuff  President, Canadian Labour Congress
Dennis Prouse  Vice-President, Government Affairs, CropLife Canada
Michael Bourque  President and Chief Executive Officer, Railway Association of Canada
Mike Luff  Senior Economist, Canadian Labour Congress

6:15 p.m.

President and Chief Executive Officer, Railway Association of Canada

Michael Bourque

In terms of efficiency, we're very fortunate in Canada with our class I railways: we have really the most efficient railways in North America, and North American railways are seen as the most efficient freight railways in the world. They've transformed from what was previously very inefficient to highly efficient. One of the ways they've done that is by creating longer trains, and that's had an impact on things like crossings. One of the members mentioned crossings earlier.

That's an interesting piece of this puzzle, because the fact is that over the last 10 years, 85% of the serious injuries and 91% of the fatalities involving railways have been at crossings or trespassing. This year, all of the fatalities in rail have been at crossings or trespassing, so there's no question that railways—partly because of their business model, but mainly because of safety—are resisting additional crossings.

Instead, what we need to do as a society is think about how we can consolidate crossings and protect them by having more bridges and tunnels. There was a great example with the Vancouver Gateway, where the province of B.C., the Government of Canada, and the local communities collaborated to solve the problem of congestion at the ports. It worked all the way backward, using rail and road traffic. We built more bridges. We made some changes at the port. We invested in rail.

The result was greater fluidity for the national economy, and greater local fluidity because you weren't held up waiting for a train. Now you had a bridge or a tunnel you could take, and greater fluidity at the port. And guess what? It's a lot safer. That corridor approach is what we need in the country, and that means more infrastructure investment at crossings, more collaboration between the parties, and closing crossings rather than opening new ones.

After the accident in Lac-Mégantic, everyone realized that railway safety is important. So we are against installing more level crossings.

6:20 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Wayne Easter

We'll have to cut it there.

Mr. Albas.

6:20 p.m.

Conservative

Dan Albas Conservative Central Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola, BC

Thank you again. Thank you to everyone who has been here today. I won't have an opportunity to talk to you all, but I appreciate your contribution today.

Mr. Coleridge, you mentioned that the science is very clear and shows a positive correlation with mentoring. First of all, would you be willing to submit, because I'm sure it's not science itself but actually a paper that backs up what you've said here today?

6:20 p.m.

National President and Chief Executive Officer, Big Brothers Big Sisters of Canada

Peter Coleridge

Yes, a lot of the data is in the submission, and we have several papers that we could submit.

6:20 p.m.

Conservative

Dan Albas Conservative Central Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola, BC

Have you heard about the Cambridge-Somerville youth survey?

6:20 p.m.

National President and Chief Executive Officer, Big Brothers Big Sisters of Canada

6:20 p.m.

Conservative

Dan Albas Conservative Central Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola, BC

Obviously the work of Joan McCord, who is a criminologist, and the longitudinal studies that she did?

6:20 p.m.

National President and Chief Executive Officer, Big Brothers Big Sisters of Canada

6:20 p.m.

Conservative

Dan Albas Conservative Central Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola, BC

I'd really like to see that, because her work actually shows that there is either a null or a slightly negative correlation. So when you say things like “the science says”, I would really appreciate having that submitted. Thank you.

I'd like to go to Mr. Yussuff. Mr. Yussuff, you said earlier that companies, when they bring in money, are subject to corporate income taxation once. Then it seemed to be almost that you indicated there is no further taxation when the money moves, either through a dividend to a shareholder, or through employment income to—let's say—an owner. Is that clear? I just want to make sure I understood what you were saying.

6:20 p.m.

President, Canadian Labour Congress

Hassan Yussuff

I submitted a copy of our comments for the clerk to distribute to you. It is very explicit. In regard to the changes the government is making, it's how income sprinkling is treated as an income, and also—

6:20 p.m.

Conservative

Dan Albas Conservative Central Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola, BC

Okay, but you recognize that there are again two elements of taxation there, one at the corporate income tax level and the other at the personal level, at the marginal rate, once it comes in as a dividend.

6:20 p.m.

President, Canadian Labour Congress

Hassan Yussuff

Yes, I do.

6:20 p.m.

Conservative

Dan Albas Conservative Central Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola, BC

You also know why that exists, right?

6:20 p.m.

President, Canadian Labour Congress

Hassan Yussuff

The tax rules allow for it to happen.

6:20 p.m.

Conservative

Dan Albas Conservative Central Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola, BC

Actually, sir, what it does is it allows for a company to be able to invest more and to save. It's a feature of the system. So to call it a loophole, I think we're going to disagree on it.

Again, if we did exactly what you said, what we're going to see is less capitalization, which means companies that are not going to be able to get loans or take care of themselves during economic downturns. I just want to point out it's a feature of the system because small businesses do not have the advantages of large ones. That's something we need to consider.

Thank you.

I'd like to go now to Mr. Prouse.

In the Okanagan where I'm from, I've been seeing a lot of changes. For example, there was a long time where people were pulling out their apples and switching into grapes for wine production. Of course, with grapes and consumer expectations and different changes in preferences, obviously grapes get pulled out and new vines get put down so they can keep up with it.

Now I also see grapes coming out for new types of cherries and new types of high-density apples. It seems to me in certain areas we can grow great fruit and great products, but we need to have those new products or plants that can grow well in Canada, which give us a competitive advantage. Is that really the heart of what your saying, that we need to have those next products?

6:25 p.m.

Vice-President, Government Affairs, CropLife Canada

Dennis Prouse

Absolutely.

A great deal of the research that is going on now is towards new consumer traits. In the first generation, if you will, of biotechnology it was about higher yields. The industry did a great job on that.

Now what you're seeing...of course in your region you would probably know Okanagan Specialty Fruits and the Arctic apple, a tremendous Canadian innovation.

6:25 p.m.

Conservative

Dan Albas Conservative Central Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola, BC

Yes.

6:25 p.m.

Vice-President, Government Affairs, CropLife Canada

Dennis Prouse

The second wave of innovation, if you will, is going to be that more consumer-focused kind of innovation.

6:25 p.m.

Conservative

Dan Albas Conservative Central Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola, BC

Yes.

6:25 p.m.

Vice-President, Government Affairs, CropLife Canada

Dennis Prouse

The question now is what kind of a regulatory environment do we have that's going to allow that to be commercialized quickly. Is that innovation going to come to Canada or is it going to go elsewhere? Obviously we would vastly prefer to see it in Canada.

6:25 p.m.

Conservative

Dan Albas Conservative Central Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola, BC

Absolutely.

6:25 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Wayne Easter

I believe, Mr. Yussuff, you wanted to respond to Mr. Albas's comments.

I think there's time, Dan.

6:25 p.m.

President, Canadian Labour Congress

Hassan Yussuff

Yes.

I don't deny the point you make on the challenges that small businesses face from time to time in getting refinancing. In regard to the stats as I understand them, there are only 5% of the people who have a CCPC account or registration who are going to be affected by this change in regard to what the government is proposing.

6:25 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Wayne Easter

You can make a very short point.

6:25 p.m.

Conservative

Dan Albas Conservative Central Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola, BC

I would just simply point out that, again, this is a very small part of the overall framework that business is carried out under. Foreign entities as well as larger public companies are not going to be affected in the same ways.

Are you comfortable with that as well? There are trade-offs every time we choose to change something. That's where I think the challenge is here.