Finance Committee on Oct. 5th, 2017

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

We'll call the meeting to order.

Welcome to the witnesses. As you know, these hearings are pre-budget consultations in advance of the 2018 budget.

For the witnesses who are here, I never looked at my iPad this morning, so I don't know whether any of you had sent in submissions prior to August. If you did, we thank you for that, because they will be part of the consultations and recommendations. They will be looked at and considered as well.

For the witnesses who are here to make a formal presentation, before we start we will take a few minutes for anybody who wants to make a one-minute statement. There are three people lined up; two of them are the same person for different organizations.

For the benefit of the witnesses as well, the open-mike session will consist of one minute or two, depending on how many people we have, for them to make their point. We don't ask questions; they just put their statement on the record and it is considered.

Pamela, we'll give you one minute for each organization. Welcome. The floor is yours.

[Pamela Murray, As an Individual]

Thank you.

A vital and active seniors community will be a great benefit to Canada's economy. I applaud the government's efforts to promote a healthier diet. If this is done aggressively and in line with science, it will reduce health costs in future years. Please devote as many resources to this effort as possible.

As a beginning point, a healthy diet could be implemented in long-term care facilities, nursing homes, hospitals, and hospital cafeterias. Also, restaurants could be required to offer this as an alternative on their menus. However, the most important thing would be to promote public awareness of a healthy diet. If health care costs are seen to be high and increasing, the government should be taking these steps to decrease health care costs.

In Finland over a 20-year period, heart attacks and strokes were reduced 60% by switching to a certain kind of salt that balanced potassium and sodium. Why can't Canada do that?

Seniors also need guaranteed access to medication and adequate seniors housing.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Thank you, Pamela.

Does that cover both organizations or just one?

That's number one. Okay, we'll give you a whole minute's break while we go to Andy Wong, and then we'll come back to you.

[Andy Wong, As an Individual]

The proposed rules are not really closing loopholes. I don't know why the word “loophole” is used. What we're trying to do now is to have a tax policy shift.

Due process requires that when there's a tax policy shift, as a minimum there should be appropriate consultation. While I recognize that this is part of the consultation process, we're not having appropriate consultation now. As a minimum going forward, I would ask that any implementation be delayed. The implementation date of July 18, 2018, for part of the proposed rules is just too soon.

The accountant body that I informally represent is confused by the rules. It becomes a question of how reasonable our tax planning for clients should be. Do you want us to be aggressive? Do you want us to be conservative? Tell us what you want in terms of what's reasonable, because we don't know what reasonable is in terms of the criteria developed so far by the government. In a sense, we're in the dark right now as to how to determine for sure how to serve our clients and not be caught a few years later having run afoul of the rules because CRA doesn't agree with the way we interpret them.

What we're doing is a major tax policy change. We should perhaps step back even more and ask, why don't we have tax reform? Why don't we see how we want to tax Canadians, as individuals or as family units? Right now, we are all over the map. When it comes to pension income, it's as a family unit because of the pension split; for other things, it's as an individual. Step back and figure out how we want to tax Canadians.

Assess whether, in fact, passive income is eroding entrepreneurship in the country. Sure there's passive income in CCPCs. We know that; the numbers prove it. However, is that impacting business in Canada or is it supporting business in Canada? We have the facts, but what we need are the results based on the facts. We don't have those results or proposed results.

At a minimum, let's step back. Let's slow down the implementation dates that are proposed. Better still, let's go back to the beginning and have a tax reform study. That would serve us better as Canadians in terms of transparency and due process.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Thank you for that, Andy.

We've heard a lot on that issue. We had two sets of hearings last week in Ottawa on the small business tax proposals separately, and we heard a lot on the road, so I thank you for that.

Pamela Murray, I've never heard from you before. Welcome.

[Pamela Murray]

Thank you.

I am an accountant in public practice in Yellowknife. I am appalled by the impact the current income tax changes will have on small business in Canada. What I'm going to say is based on what a colleague, Jason Stephan, says, and I agree with him.

The after-tax economics of starting or growing a family business in Canada will be less attractive. Also, with diminished retained profits in small private corporations, there will be less investment and employment in Canada.

The tax changes in concert with other significant tax increases will make Canada uncompetitive vis-à-vis other jurisdictions for individuals and families to start and grow a family business. That includes competition from the U.S. with upcoming tax reforms.

Exporting jobs and businesses out of Canada is not good tax planning.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Thank you very much, Pamela.

As I told Andy, we did have hearings last week. I would mention that the Minister of Finance put out a press release yesterday. There are five points in it that suggest where they are going. Look at it and if you have any comments, send them in to them and to us. The government hasn't said where it's going definitively yet. We're open to hearing any constructive feedback on those five points, and we'll send the message along. All of the members on the committee would.

Thank you very much for the open-mike presentations. We'll turn to the official panel with submissions.

From the Government of the Northwest Territories, we have David Stewart and Sandy Kalgutkar.

Welcome. The floor is yours.

[David Stewart, Secretary to the Financial Management Board/Deputy Minister, Department of Finance, Government of the Northwest Territories]

Good morning, and welcome to Yellowknife. Thank you for providing us with the opportunity to speak to you today on behalf of the Government of the Northwest Territories.

I know that our premier and our minister of finance would have liked to be here with you today, but as many of you would know, our government operates as a consensus form of government. One of the features of this is a mid-term review on the performance of cabinet by all of the members of the legislative assembly, which happens to be taking place today. This difference in governance is a reminder of how varied our country is and how different the N.W.T. is from southern Canada.

Let me start with some background about the Northwest Territories. The N.W.T. is Canada's third largest jurisdiction by land area and third smallest by population. Our 44,000 residents reside mainly in the N.W.T.'s 33 communities, with these communities ranging in size from less than 100 to over 20,000 in Yellowknife, the N.W.T. capital.

Our GDP is approximately $3.7 billion, and our economy is largely fuelled by the diamond industry and other resource extraction activities. With that said, we have other important sectors like tourism, construction, business support services, and retail and wholesale trade.

Our communities are diverse. While our overall employment rate and average income level appear to be strong, in many of our smaller communities, the employment rate is less than 50% among working age adults, and a significant percentage of families make less than $30,000 annually.

The reality of low or modest income is exacerbated by the high cost of living. It is difficult to easily capture the impact of cost of living in our communities, but I will provide an example.

Yesterday I looked and noted that you could buy a small jar of strawberry jam in Ottawa for $2.99. In Ulukhaktok a small northern community without road access, that same jar of strawberry jam costs $12.79 according to a recent survey of retail prices.

While I won't run down a litany of statistics, we can report that our education outcomes, population health indicators, crime rates, and housing conditions significantly lag behind national averages and are generally worse in our smaller communities.

Like many governments, the Government of the Northwest Territories, or GNWT, has faced fiscal challenges in recent years. We responded to this challenge by taking actions to better align our expenditures with our revenues. However, the challenge of expected slow growth in revenues over the medium term means that we need to continue to manage spending to fund new programs and services, and to respond to increases in demand for the cost of delivering programs and services.

Despite these fiscal pressures, we still want to make investments to achieve our collective vision. We fully recognize that our focus on managing our financial resources must still leave room to make investments in our population and our infrastructure, to realize the potential of the N.W.T.'s economy.

We need the federal government to understand that we are different from the provinces, and we need to have the flexibility to participate in federal initiatives in a manner that makes the most sense for northerners. One way the federal government can reflect the uniqueness of the N.W.T. is by moving away from per capita funding models towards a base-plus approach.

If tomorrow the federal government decided to invest $500 million in social housing and it was allocated on a per capita basis, the N.W.T. would get $600,000 of that. Given the high cost of materials and transportation, that would mean we would be able to build a single duplex in one of our small communities.

Turning more directly to your questions on improving Canadian personal and business productivity, there are a number of areas that we would like to highlight. In terms of measures that would help make Canadians more productive, we would absolutely agree with the focus on education and training. As we all know, the skills and abilities required are increasing in our labour market. As noted for the N.W.T., our education outcomes are generally lower than for the rest of Canada, so measures related to education and training must be flexible to be effective in the north.

Upgrading is often a required step for northern students wanting to improve their chance of labour market success. Strictly limiting programs in the way they are implemented or in client eligibility leads to making programs less effective in the N.W.T.

Organizations like the N.W.T. Mine Training Society have achieved enormous success in the field of training, not only because of the courses offering skill development but because of their other supports like courses in life skills and personal budgeting, and the provision of job coaches to ensure participants stay on track. Again, in the N.W.T., looking beyond traditional approaches for skills development and training, and providing flexibility greater than what would be envisioned in a southern urban setting is critical.

I was pleased to see housing mentioned in the material sent to us as a type of measure that may help make Canadians be more productive. It is hard to stay focused on employment, education, or training when living in substandard housing. The reality of the Northwest Territories is that housing conditions in our smaller communities continue to present significant challenges. Investment in housing is critical to building community capacity. Housing also provides training employment opportunities in our smallest communities and creates a legacy infrastructure in those communities. Housing in the N.W.T. is an essential piece of infrastructure for Canada to maintain sovereignty in the Arctic and to support the north's economic development.

The GNWT looks forward to working in partnership with provinces, other territories, and the federal government to develop a national housing strategy that will address the priority actions and specifically allow for the flexibility for provinces and territories to address gaps and to strengthen the housing continuum relative to their own jurisdiction.

I'd like to now address the issue of how the federal government can help N.W.T. business be more productive and competitive. Our first priority is to encourage the federal government to work with GNWT in advancing key strategic infrastructure investments designed to support resource development, diversify our economy, and lower energy costs, which in turn will reduce the cost of living and operating businesses. These investments are critical to unlocking the potential of the N.W.T. We have been encouraged by the investments in infrastructure that have been announced, and as these programs are more fully developed and implemented, we believe they could be an important factor in advancing some of our areas of priority.

The N.W.T. and all of Canada will capture significant economic opportunities through the construction of three strategic road corridors: the Mackenzie Valley Highway from Wrigley to Norman Wells, the Tlicho all-season road, and the improved access to the Slave geological province, where most of the diamonds sit.

The N.W.T. has thousands of megawatts of undeveloped hydro potential. There are many potential projects, the Taltson project being one of them. This is a hydro project in the southern part of the N.W.T. and, in the context of the pan-Canadian framework on climate change, the Taltson project would help reduce Canada's greenhouse gas emissions by 360,000 tonnes, would rely on existing water storage with no new flooding, and would build on a long history of working with aboriginal governments, as it would be a partnership.

A second priority would be to improve economic development and competitiveness as it relates to settling outstanding land, resource, and self-government agreements and to ensure that there is predictable, efficient, and integrated service for making decisions around land use.

I won't go into a whole lot of details on this, but in conclusion, let me say the N.W.T. has much to offer in helping to shape the future of Canada. We have a long history of working in partnership with aboriginal governments to achieve mutual goals. We have a long history of working with Canada on our shared priorities. We have new sources of energy, metals, and minerals to power Canada's economic growth.

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Thank you very much, Mr. Stewart.

We'll go to questions after all the panellists.

From the Northwest Territories Association of Communities, we have Ms. Brown, CEO.

Welcome.

[Sara Brown, Chief Executive Officer, Northwest Territories Association of Communities]

Thank you very much.

We'd like to thank the Standing Committee on Finance for the opportunity to appear before you as part of your consultations and preparation for the 2018 budget.

The NWT Association of Communities represents all 33 communities in the N.W.T., from the smallest of Kakisa, with a population of 52, to Yellowknife, with a population of approximately 22,000. We advocate on behalf of our members, deliver programs, share information, and provide numerous member services.

This submission focuses on three major priorities for federal action in the upcoming budget: infrastructure funding and climate change, increasing the supply of housing, and restoring tax exemptions for expense allowances paid to municipally elected officials.

First, on infrastructure and climate change, it has been very heartening to see additional funding being allocated to municipal infrastructure in the last few federal budgets, especially the allocations that are base plus. We would strongly encourage this to continue and to be enhanced.

Great inroads have been made in ensuring that additional funds are allocated to the north and, for the most part, many of the new infrastructure programs have been evolving to embrace many of the recommended parameters that you will find in detail in our written submission.

Building communities in the north is important for local, social, and economic sustainability. A recent study completed by the Conference Board of Canada's Centre for the North showed that, for every $1 million invested at the community level, 13 jobs are created as compared to roughly half that for federal and territorial direct spending.

In this time of climate change, many additional expenditures will be required as well in order to ensure the sustainability of communities and the territorial economy. Climate change is both a challenge and an opportunity in the north. The NWTAC has completed a study showing that the fiscal impacts of permafrost decay alone on public infrastructure will be in the order of $1.3 billion. This will prove to be an additional burden, but it will also be an opportunity in the future.

Given the role this region plays in national sovereignty and supporting resource development, these investments should be seen as critical to nation building.

These improvements will result in equalization of regional opportunities, reduction of geographically based obstacles to improve standards of living, and comparable economic development. Construction and service industries will benefit from the ability of municipalities to effectively access and spend funds in the northern economy and provide training and management development opportunities. Northerners’ standard of living will be increased by the improvement of community services.

As well, programs that encourage the development of territorial projects, which will encourage trade, including highway development projects like the one undertaken for the Mackenzie Valley Highway, will have significant impacts on economic development and will increase the resilience of communities on that route to climate change.

The second priority is increasing the supply of housing. In the majority of N.W.T. communities, heavy reliance upon public housing is required as a result of high unemployment and the lack of a private housing market. Relative to the rest of Canada, more N.W.T. residents live in crowded conditions, and their houses are more in need of major repair. The percentage of households in core need stands at 12% in communities considered to have a private housing market and 42% in non-market communities. The N.W.T. Housing Corporation routinely reports waiting lists for housing units in excess of 400 applicants.

Although we have seen some progress on this front in recent budgets, more needs to be done. Progress on overcoming the deficit of affordable, adequate, and available housing in the N.W.T. cannot be achieved without a renewed federal commitment to fund the construction and renewal of social housing. Chronic homelessness and inadequacy of housing must be eliminated through proven strategies and tax incentives, or other measures must be used to stimulate new rental and affordable housing construction. Special territorial funding transfers are required to preserve and renovate existing social housing units. This funding will also serve as a stimulus to the local economies where houses are being constructed and maintained.

Finally is the restoration of tax exemptions for expense allowances paid to municipally elected officials. Recruiting candidates to run for municipal council is a challenge in the N.W.T. Often, many positions are acclaimed or have no candidates at all. The loss of the exemptions for expense allowances paid to municipal elected officials will exacerbate this challenge. The removal of this exemption may stress municipal budgets in order to ensure that salaries do not drop.

Thank you again to the committee for this opportunity to present our perspective to you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Thank you very much.

I don't know what the loss of exemption for expense allowances is, so maybe you could explain that later.

Turning to the Northwest Territories/Nunavut Council of Friendship Centres, we have Mr. Rabesca, Mr. Bird, and Ms. Caudron.

Welcome.

[Shari Caudron, Board Member, Northwest Territories/Nunavut Council of Friendship Centres]

Thank you for this opportunity to speak to you on behalf of the Northwest Territories/Nunavut Council of Friendship Centres.

The challenge posed for solutions can be summed up very easily. The friendship centre movement addresses all challenges with solutions, delivers programs and services across the nation, and provides solutions to all seven pillars of the federal anti-poverty strategy. We serve the needs of our communities, families, and individuals.

Friendship centres bridge the gap in government programming. When people do not know where to go, they come to the friendship centres. Our clients know we are a safe, friendly, supportive, non-judgmental, and welcoming environment for people of all races, colours, and creeds. We bridge the gap between the indigenous and non-indigenous communities. We live to serve. We are your solution.

Our organizations give youth, seniors, and communities a voice. We provide advocacy services and youth centres, address homelessness, embrace newcomers, build trust, and address the issues posed. We are your front-line workers who are passionate about what we do. Where government is missing a solution, we provide it. We take one dollar and stretch it into 10 dollars. We are your front-line workers who know the grassroots and are not doing it for the money, I can assure you. We do it to serve our clients and to help them succeed.

Friendship centres have the infrastructure in place to assist all Canadians, indigenous and non-indigenous, be more productive in the Canadian economy. We know our clients. We love our clients, and we do what we can to help them succeed.

The Northwest Territories/Nunavut Council of Friendship Centres is part of a much larger picture, and the resources of best practices we have access to. We have access to 122 friendship centres across Canada. We can pick up the phone and ask a centre, “How did you do this?” That centre will provide us with their proposal, funding access, and feedback on measurements of success. Our national office is a phone call away. They will do everything to connect us with programs that have been successful, so we do not have to reinvent the wheel.

Friendship centres are your solution for making Canadians more productive, a few examples of how we can help, and I can assure you, we could do more if we had the financial support to provide frontline solutions for the people we serve.

We have recommendations for federal measures to assist Canadians to be more productive, one of which is research into homelessness at a local level is needed. One of the biggest barriers to success for friendship centre clients is homelessness. It is not just the people you see on the streets. It's the clients you don't see. They come to us. Many of the people we help are the hidden homeless or couch surfers. This issue is a lot like an iceberg. We only see a small portion of the homeless on the street. The majority of them are hidden. These are the people who seek out services from friendship centres.

A three-step transitional and affordable housing strategy would provide the support clients need to transition to employment. These would be new energy-efficient facilities.

Housing first construction would focus on clients who are hard to house and persons struggling with addiction. The bottom floor of the facility would provide programs and services that meet the needs of the clientele. These services would be optional. Eventually, the clients would realize that this is a safe, supportive place with the potential to change their lives.

Housing for seniors and persons with disabilities would be a separate energy-efficient structure built to meet their needs. It would be fully staffed and have a community and recreation space, and transportation services.

Affordable housing would be a newly constructed and energy-efficient building for the working poor. In the Northwest Territories the living wage is $20.68 per hour, and that is just to be able to live. Include a recreation centre and support systems such as affordable child care within the building.

We recommend grassroots training to employment initiatives open to people of all ages to be delivered through friendship centres, and long-term funding agreements for 122 friendship centres across Canada to deliver life skills, essential skills, and industry certification with on-the-job training opportunities. Measurables would include clients transitioning to employment, returning to school, or becoming self-employed. There would also be ongoing follow up with clients.

Once a member of a friendship centre, they will always be part of the friendship centre movement. I've been part of the friendship centre movement since I was 13 years old.

Justice clients need transitional supports and transitional housing after being released. We recommend providing programs and services within this transitional housing to provide the support for clients to make smart choices and transition into employment and healthier lifestyles.

In terms of health, we recommend collective databases for friendship centres to share best practices in health and wellness. The Northwest Territories/Nunavut Council of Friendship Centres has had Health Canada funding to provide reconciliation support to communities across the north. An increase in funding would allow us to increase this service, which is in need.

On transportation to and from hospitals for seniors, persons with disabilities, and all people, a local transit system would assist people seeking medical attention as well as accessing employment and education.

Business development and enhanced economic development provide the supports to friendship centres with a national proven record of success to provide business incubators and support for small businesses, entrepreneurship training, and start-up funding with fewer restrictions. Some people have brilliant ideas yet lack the credit or the finances for start-up. As well, an institute of technology located in Hay River, with a focus on the marine industry and with modern technology to train our people for their jobs and keep the wages in the north.... We can develop enhanced job creation strategies with regard to environmental cleanup. The north is littered with uranium and other toxins that are increasing health care costs. Let's clean this up and create jobs.

In closing, the friendship centre movement can provide the infrastructure and supports to help our citizens be more productive, to contribute to the Canadian economy, and to contribute to the wellness of our communities. Friendship centres are your solution. Just give us the support we need.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Thank you for all three presentations.

We'll go to six-minute rounds, and we'll turn to Mr. McLeod first.

[Michael McLeod, Liberal, Northwest Territories, NT]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Thank you to all the presenters today. They were very interesting presentations, ones I've heard before. I think I've belonged to all three of your organizations at one point in my life.

There are some serious issues that are being brought forward here. The economy is a big one, and that's something we always strive to improve. There are signs that things are getting a little bit better on the tourism side. We saw all the tours when we came in. We see in the papers that there are no hotel rooms available in Yellowknife, and hopefully that's going to spread out into the communities. Mining is doing not bad. It looks like we maybe have another mine on the horizon.

Throughout my travels, in every community I go to and every meeting I attend, the subject always ends up around housing. People are saying they can't go to work if they have no place to stay, that they can't get up in the morning if there are 16 of them in the house and they can't go to sleep or their children can't go to school. All these issues just keep coming back.

Once the discussion hits housing, there is no room at the table for anything else. It's a huge issue for us. It's a crisis situation. In 2015, when I was elected, we were getting $1.8 million a year from the federal government. The year after that, we went to $10 million. We are now at $13 million.

I want to hear from all of you because you all mention housing and how serious that issue is.

Maybe we could start with GNWT.

[David Stewart]

The member is exactly right. Housing, particularly in our smaller communities, has significant problems associated with it. It's the adequacy of the housing units. There are crowding issues, and there are affordability issues.

When you and I buy a house in a larger community, we expect we will have an opportunity to be able to resell it and maybe have it appreciate in value. There really is no private sector market, so the role of social housing in our communities is much different from what you see in the south. The problem is not shelters and those sorts of things, although those are an important part of it. It's the houses people live in and, in many of our communities, it's the majority of housing. The decline in funding that the territorial government has received has meant that all of our investments have been just to maintain the status quo.

I think Sara mentioned the huge waiting lists we have. We continue to have a fairly young population, which means the demand is there for more housing. As well, our seniors population is getting to the point where it's extremely difficult. With that price quote I gave you, you can imagine what it's like to try to get services in small communities to do maintenance and those sorts of things. The result of all that has meant that our home ownership units are starting to suffer really heavily as well.

There's a significant need for investment and ongoing funding to be able to make sure we can continue to provide those. Housing really is the core of a strong, healthy community, and if we don't have those, it's hard to imagine how those communities can carry on.

[Michael McLeod, Liberal, Northwest Territories, NT]

Can we get Sara to talk about housing a little more too?

[Sara Brown]

Certainly it's a big issue. As Michael mentioned, any time we sit down, housing is always at the top of the list.

Even though it's not formally a municipal responsibility, we know it impacts so many aspects, even health. If you are in a crowded household that's inadequate, with people sleeping in shifts and those sorts of things, that starts to affect health outcomes and people's ability to get to school or work. It's a day-to-day occurrence in the communities. It is absolutely critical.

However, by making those additional investments, it is also an opportunity to be doing training and stimulating those economies. That happens at a local level, which, as I mentioned, has twice the impact that it does when things are delivered at a territorial or federal level.

[Michael McLeod, Liberal, Northwest Territories, NT]

Through my travels this summer, I heard somebody mention that they wanted to talk about the economy. I wanted to talk about environmental issues, but the guy said, “When you're living in poverty, you don't have a conscience for those types of things.” I think that's true.

It has become very evident that one of the things we need in the north is more investment in infrastructure. We signed some bilateral agreements with the territorial government recently, but some larger projects have been mentioned. Maybe you could talk about those things, and then I'll have one more question for the friendship centre.

Regarding the requirement especially for transportation infrastructure, how important is that in the north? Only so many communities have roads. That's one area. You also mentioned Taltson.

[David Stewart]

Mr. McLeod is absolutely right. We have quite an infrastructure deficit in the north, and transportation infrastructure is one of those areas. There has been a long-standing priority to put a highway up the Mackenzie Valley. It's an area that's rich in particularly oil and gas. In these communities, the cost of living is extraordinarily high, which of course would be impacted by that as well.

We've been making investments. We've done things in partnership with the federal government, but it is certainly a high priority.

Regarding the road to the Slave geological province, as I mentioned, that's the area that's most rich in diamonds and other minerals. Without road access on a year-round basis, exploration becomes more difficult. The cost of operating becomes more difficult. In our exploration expenditures, you see the challenges from some of that lack of infrastructure in the north.

Then finally there's the Taltson project, and other roads that are priority as well.

The Taltson project is really quite an opportunity for Canada. It will link our hydro system with southern Canada. We have enormous potential there, but until we have the way to actually get that electricity generation into southern markets, all the potential in the world isn't going to change a lot. It's an area that I know is a high priority around climate change, and it's one where we would do not just a partnership of the federal government and the territorial government, but partnership with aboriginal governments. That's one that should be attractive to everyone.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Mr. McLeod, you have time for a very quick question.

[Michael McLeod, Liberal, Northwest Territories, NT]

Okay. I have just a quick question for the friendship centres.

We've just completed a study on suicide crisis situations in indigenous communities across Canada. I sat on the committee that did that study. In the study it was pointed out that communities really want to see cultural centres, family centres, or friendship centres. They feel that there should be one in each indigenous community across Canada. Is that something you would agree with?

[Shari Caudron]

Absolutely. We deal with suicide on a regular basis. We're there for our clients, so we can satellite out from our other friendship centres straight across the north.

As I said, we address all seven pillars of the anti-poverty strategy. We know our clients. We're the front-line workers, and they begin to trust and support us.

We had one attempted suicide in August, and that young man is now working full time and he sees a counsellor on a regular basis. It's that intervention that we're able to do and to provide the supports at the local level.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Thank you, Michael.

Mr. Albas.

[Dan Albas, Conservative, Central Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to both of our speakers today for their contributions at the open mike. Obviously this is an issue that the government is well seized with, and they should be. I do hope that they listen to your comments in regard to both the damage that it could do and the opportunity to go back to the drawing board.

I also want to thank each witness for coming forward today. Hopefully we're getting a chance to have a good understanding of all the issues.

Mr. Stewart, there is a lot of discussion in your presentation about different roads, roads that connect communities, as well as roads that connect to resources. Which, in your government's view, is the priority right now? Is it in the development of more economic activity or is it in connecting communities?

[David Stewart]

I think those go hand in hand for the most part. Take the Mackenzie Valley Highway, for example. There are several communities along the Mackenzie River that would be connected as construction takes place there moving from a winter road system to an all-season road. That would enormously help those communities, but it would also help with the economic development of significant oil and gas reserves and potentially other minerals in that area.

It's similar with the other roads. Probably the infrastructure project that has the most direct tie to the economy is related to the Slave geological province, which, as I mentioned, is where most of the diamonds are. When you think back to who the people are who are working on that road, who those people are who are employed by those projects, they're the residents of the Northwest Territories. That has linkage to communities and to having the income to be able to support themselves in those communities. I think we have both priorities.

We also recognize that many of these projects take a very long time to get completed. The Tlicho road is in environmental review now. Between the reviews that are necessary and then the construction, it's probably a five- or six-year process. Something like the Mackenzie Valley has been going on for years, similar to the Slave geological province.

We think we can do all of those various projects, but we're talking about a 10- to 15-year horizon, not all being rolled out in the next few years, just because of the nature of the reviews and wanting to do them in an environmentally sustainable way as well as just the sheer size of those kinds of projects.