Finance Committee on Feb. 26th, 2018

[Raj Grewal, Liberal, Brampton East, ON]

But is that data kept somewhere?

[A/Commr Joanne Crampton]

It would be. Recognizing that an investigation may take many years, it might start in one year, but it wouldn't conclude until two or three years later. That's possible, or it could also conclude the same year.

[Raj Grewal, Liberal, Brampton East, ON]

I read in the paper today that the U.S. Treasury Department is looking into a regulation on cryptocurrencies. Cryptocurrencies are very, very popular across the world, and they're known for money laundering.

Do any of the witnesses have any expertise on Canada's position on cryptocurrencies and recommendations for the government?

[John Davies, Director General, National Security Policy, Department of Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness]

I think in their background paper, the Department of Finance refers to cryptocurrency as a potential issue for the future. I think the department also mentioned that it is working on regulations in that regard, but that question would be best directed to the Department of Finance.

[Raj Grewal, Liberal, Brampton East, ON]

So there are no ongoing investigations by any of your departments that would involve cryptocurrencies.

[John Davies]

I would say, just from Public Safety's point of view, no, we don't do investigations, anyway. As a policy issue, obviously, it's an interesting issue—not just cryptocurrencies, but the underlying technology, like blockchain technology. What that means in this world is absolutely something of interest.

[Raj Grewal, Liberal, Brampton East, ON]

To CBSA, the $10,000 limit was set decades ago. What is the rationale for keeping it at that? Why not increase it; why not decrease it? Cash is in short circulation these days. What is your thought process on why it's still there?

[Sébastien Aubertin-Giguère]

This announcement is set by the Department of Finance. We only enforce this prescribed amount, so we don't have a clear position on this one. It would be up to the Department of Finance to respond to that.

[Raj Grewal, Liberal, Brampton East, ON]

You mentioned that $85 million is collected by the CBSA each year. Is that correct?

[Sébastien Aubertin-Giguère]

No, I said that the overall amount of money that we took out of circulation as identified as proceeds of crime over the entire life of the program is $80 million.

[Raj Grewal, Liberal, Brampton East, ON]

Sorry, over the entire life of the program it was $80 million?

[Sébastien Aubertin-Giguère]

Yes.

[Raj Grewal, Liberal, Brampton East, ON]

How much is that on a year-to-year basis?

[Sébastien Aubertin-Giguère]

Year to year, level 4, for example, if you take this fiscal year, there were 89 seizures, and that would be $2.7 million.

[Raj Grewal, Liberal, Brampton East, ON]

That is $2.7 million.

[Sébastien Aubertin-Giguère]

On average we're talking about $2.7 million, yes.

[Raj Grewal, Liberal, Brampton East, ON]

I'm assuming that all of you guys in all your departments deal with FINTRAC quite a bit. How is the data collection by FINTRAC? Is it easily accessible when they're submitting data to you guys? Can you guys slice and dice it the way you need to, or are there shortcomings that we could improve on the FINTRAC side?

[Sébastien Aubertin-Giguère]

We don't receive much information from FINTRAC. That's not the mandate. Our mandate is to collect and give that information to FINTRAC, which analyzes it and sends it to the other agencies, such as the RCMP. We're not a consumer.

We do receive some disclosures on particular cases, and that's a new process, but overall, we're not a user of the intelligence.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

If anyone else wants to add to that answer, just raise your hand, and I'll catch you.

Joanne.

[A/Commr Joanne Crampton]

Certainly with regard to FINTRAC, we do receive a significant amount of information from them, and we have no issues with the type of information we're receiving. If we ever need clarification, we have a very good partnership with FINTRAC.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Cherie.

[Cherie Henderson]

We also have a very good partnership with FINTRAC. We do work with them very closely so that they understand the type of information we need and they can provide what will help us further our investigations. It's a very positive relationship.

[Raj Grewal, Liberal, Brampton East, ON]

Are there scenarios in which CSIS would pass on information to the RCMP and charges would not be laid?

[Cherie Henderson]

Well, we would certainly pass on any lead information we have to the RCMP, to help them facilitate their investigations.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Go ahead.