Evidence of meeting #171 for Finance in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was airports.
A recording is available from Parliament.
11:25 a.m.
Aurora—Oak Ridges—Richmond Hill, CPC
Is there anything else the federal government can be doing to support the space strategy?
11:25 a.m.
President and Chief Executive Officer, Maritime Launch Services Ltd.
Well, we're one piece of it. We co-submitted for this committee with a couple of other firms.
There are some budding launch operators that are developing rockets here in Canada. We partnered with Reaction Dynamics for this submission. They're based in Montreal. They're designing and developing a rocket out of the university infrastructure, and they have some seed funding through the Space Agency. They are one of three companies in Canada that have reached out to us and are looking at springboarding from our site as well.
11:30 a.m.
Aurora—Oak Ridges—Richmond Hill, CPC
Is there room in the market for all of them?
11:30 a.m.
President and Chief Executive Officer, Maritime Launch Services Ltd.
Oh my gosh, yes. There are several thousand cube satellites that are planned to be launched over the next few years, and most of them are ride-shares and back-of-the-bus kinds of things. There are dozens of launch operators that are trying to get going globally. You know, the Rocket Lab, Virgin Orbit, and a number of others are trying to get going.
There is certainly plenty of space for it. They're at 150- to 200-kilogram capacities, and we're at three tonnes, so we're a different market segment. There's plenty of room in the market, especially at the growth rate that we're seeing.
11:30 a.m.
Aurora—Oak Ridges—Richmond Hill, CPC
Are we late to the game, or are we still in a position where we could have a command and market share, and a leadership position?
11:30 a.m.
President and Chief Executive Officer, Maritime Launch Services Ltd.
We can certainly have a leadership position by springboarding with the partnership with Ukraine that we have going right now. Yuzhnoye and Yuzhmash have been flying rockets since the 1960s, and no one has anything more mature across the globe, period—not even NASA.
They've launched 675 times in various aspects under various guises, as part of Sea Launch, as part of Russia, as part of the European Space Agency and as part of Orbital ATK's Antares rocket. They're a part of all of those, and they've been going for decades.
By utilizing them as part of our springboard for getting our site up and running, we're meeting our clients' needs, but we're also offering that opportunity for the small satellite launchers to fit in and tuck underneath.
At the end of the day, I'm a rocket guy. Rockets are hard, and you don't want to rush them. There is opportunity there, certainly, but it will take maturing of the rocket technology for the smaller companies to advance.
11:30 a.m.
Liberal
11:30 a.m.
NDP
Peter Julian NDP New Westminster—Burnaby, BC
Thank you very much to our witnesses. I have questions for each of you.
I'd like to start with Mr. Bishop and Mr. Chase. Thank you very much for giving us a sense of how underfunded salmon enhancement and salmon protection projects currently are.
You said that of 200 proposals annually, you can fund only 100. Could you give us an example of something that met the test to be funded by the foundation but you were unable to provide funds for?
11:30 a.m.
Stephen Chase Executive Director, Atlantic Salmon Conservation Foundation
Yes. In each province, we have an expert advisory committee that is very familiar with the proponent organizations, the nature of the projects and the priority issues.
They will typically take an ask.... We've helped conditionally applicant groups to make reasonable asks and make good proposals, and they'll adapt the ask to the limited pot of money that they have available. You might get a good project—for opening up some salmon habitat or improving water quality in a river—that is larger than what they have and it has to be pared back.
We have had to turn down some salmon count activities, which are really important for understanding the size of the population and what the population is experiencing.
We've had to turn down some really high-quality research proposals. We actually do put quite a bit of money into universities doing research. We see research as a key to helping the use of the conservation dollars go further and be wiser. We've had to turn down some of them.
It's really difficult.
11:30 a.m.
NDP
Peter Julian NDP New Westminster—Burnaby, BC
When you say that 200 projects are approved but only 100 can be funded, are you talking about fully funding them, or are you talking about being able to fund them at all?
11:30 a.m.
Executive Director, Atlantic Salmon Conservation Foundation
No, I'm sorry. We get about 200 applications a year, and we're able to fund only about half of them. So of the—
11:30 a.m.
Executive Director, Atlantic Salmon Conservation Foundation
That's right. Most of them get most of the money they're looking for, if they are good quality. Some of them get the funding that our advisory committee, in its wisdom, says that they should be able to use to deliver that project within that envelope.
11:30 a.m.
NDP
Peter Julian NDP New Westminster—Burnaby, BC
Thank you very much. That's very helpful. You are really establishing the case for an increased funding envelope so you can provide more supports to other projects.
Mr. Hierlihy, you referenced the issue of rent. I'd be interested in two things. I don't believe you mentioned the overall number of airports in Atlantic Canada that are members of your organization. I'd be interested to know how much in rent currently leaves Atlantic Canada every year that should rather be invested to provide more supports, because we know that airports are really motors for regional economic development. How many airports are members, and how much leaves the region each year?
11:35 a.m.
Director, Finance and Administration, Saint John Airport, Atlantic Canada Airports Association
I don't have the exact number of airports. I can tell you that the amount of rent is over $10 million annually, largely represented by the larger airports in the region, which are St. John's and Halifax. It is north of $10 million. That burden will ramp up fairly quickly as the airports continue to grow, because of the way the rent works. Once you hit $10 million in annual revenue for an airport, you start paying 5%. That's the way the mechanism works. There are some smaller airports, like ours. Once we get up to those levels—which we will reach very quickly—the rent will increase significantly.
The situation that Moncton is in, which we referenced in the report, is a good example of that. The burden on them of having a $500,000 level of rent.... That's a very significant piece of rent when you're talking about the revenue base and the requirements for ongoing maintenance capital and safety-related items.
11:35 a.m.
NDP
Peter Julian NDP New Westminster—Burnaby, BC
Yes, certainly there is no doubt that the reinvestment in the region would make a big difference. That's a very compelling argument.
Could you provide the information later to the committee about the number of airports? I think that would be helpful for us to judge overall. It would add to your excellent presentation.
Mr. Beerman and Mr. White, you were talking about $25 million. You also raise a very compelling argument around preventing drownings. I think all of us have some experience with this. I remember my good friend and neighbour, Jamie Hillier, who drowned just 60 days ago. His death was preventable. The point you're making is that so many of these tragic drownings are preventable if we make the right kind of investments.
When we talk about the kind of financial investments that you're speaking of, is there any litmus test in terms of the number of lives saved if we compare it to other countries that do make those investments? What is the rate of accidental drownings in those countries?
What is your best pitch in terms of this investment actually saving lives?
11:35 a.m.
Co-Chair, Canadian Drowning Prevention Coalition
If you assume, as an aspirational goal, that the investment would reduce 50% of the preventable drownings in Canada, and that more than 100 lives would be saved and 1,000 lives improved per year—“improved” meaning they didn't die and they were non-fatal drownings—by the end of that five-year investment period, the request we're making would involve $250,000 per life saved, and $25,000 per life improved—in other words, non-fatal drowning prevention. This is a great value as a public health initiative. It's much better value per life saved than in most other public health interventions.
That is the reason the World Health Organization has really moved into this recommendation that countries of all socio-economic levels should have a single agency that is leading drowning prevention in that country, and that this is a public health issue and not just a recreational issue, as was pointed out by the question from your colleague about its impact on indigenous Canadians and new Canadians.
The mathematical calculations with regard to the exact impact of this need research and data support, which is the major part of our pitch. Our knowledge of the drowning impact in Canada is currently incomplete. Although we have a very mature understanding of the mortality, we have a very immature understanding of the non-fatal drowning scenario. We need some help to improve that and have a full understanding.
Also, traditionally in Canada, the drowning fatalities associated with suicide have not been part of the conversation. Homicide is not part of the conversation, and then there are some complex scenarios that are details. Transportation events do not count as drowning events, and there's a significant number of those. Catastrophic events do not count as drowning events. They're incidents of catastrophe and they are classified differently.
The picture of data we have is currently incomplete. It is formulated by two incredible NGOs in the country that have been doing this for a long time and without government support. It's time we mature our understanding of this issue with a much more robust data and research capacity.
11:40 a.m.
Liberal
11:40 a.m.
Liberal
Francesco Sorbara Liberal Vaughan—Woodbridge, ON
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Welcome, everyone. Thank you for your presentations.
I'm going to go across the board. I'll start with the Atlantic Canada Airports Association.
I've been on this committee since I was elected as a member of Parliament and had the privilege to serve, and I've always advocated that we do something on ground rents. I'll go back to a Senate report. I forget the names of the senators who put that together. They were looking at airports as ATMs versus investments. We're taking money out and it's going to [Inaudible—Editor]. This has been across the board. I can still remember.... I think it was Jean Lapierre who introduced a new, revised ground rent system, which reduced them. I think we can do more, and I agree that we need to look at it. I'm not going to ask a question on that because I am with you on that.
The second one is on CATSA and CATSA Plus. How important is it that we continue to put that in place across all airports in Canada? We have to call it what it is. The previous Conservative government did not invest and did not focus on our airports. It's like driving on Highway 400, where I live, or the 401, getting pulled over and then having the rest of the traffic wait until you get searched, stopped or ticketed, or whatever you want to call it. That's what happens at airports today, so we need CATSA Plus. How important is it to get CATSA Plus not only to the airports here in Atlantic Canada, but across the country?
11:40 a.m.
Director, Finance and Administration, Saint John Airport, Atlantic Canada Airports Association
I think it's highly important, as we talk about airports and the industry being an economic driver, and given the image we have worldwide and within the country of long wait times. The agreed-upon standard right now in Canada is that we clear 85% of passengers within a 15-minute time window, which is quite low compared to international standards. We feel the target should be much higher. I know that during peak times they can wait an hour-plus. Efficiency needs to be addressed, so we think CATSA Plus is vital.
11:40 a.m.
Liberal
Francesco Sorbara Liberal Vaughan—Woodbridge, ON
I completely agree. It goes into productivity and efficiency in moving goods and services—and people.
11:40 a.m.
Director, Finance and Administration, Saint John Airport, Atlantic Canada Airports Association
Yes.
11:40 a.m.
Liberal
Francesco Sorbara Liberal Vaughan—Woodbridge, ON
When we think about goods and services, we should add people to it as well, because we need to move people, whether through our ports with cruise ships or through trains and airports.
Your fourth recommendation was to increase infrastructure funding from $38 million to $75 million annually. Can you identify some of the projects you could undertake at the airports that this would assist with?
11:40 a.m.
Director, Finance and Administration, Saint John Airport, Atlantic Canada Airports Association
It would include such things as firefighting vehicles at the airports, snow-clearing equipment, that sort of thing. That's partially covered by the program for the smaller regional airports. Certain airports, such as the Saint John Airport, aren't currently eligible for that program based on the fact that they're on federal land.
11:40 a.m.
Liberal
Francesco Sorbara Liberal Vaughan—Woodbridge, ON
Thank you.
To the Canadian Drowning Prevention Coalition, I think we're all with you on this one here. I learned how to swim in elementary school through some program that we were brought to. Otherwise, I don't think I would have learned how to swim. I think all Canadians are with you on this.
It is impacting newcomers, under-represented groups, and minority groups. We had one tragic situation in Toronto of a young man going swimming out in cottage country and not coming home. To quote a comment made by my colleague Mr. McColeman the other day, this is one of these asks where it's not that much. Should we be giving newcomers a pamphlet when they arrive in Canada?
