Finance Committee on Nov. 20th, 2018

Evidence of meeting #189 for Finance in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was chair.

A video is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

Bill C-86
Committee Business

MPs speaking

Wayne Easter
Tom Kmiec
Pierre Poilievre
Peter Julian
Greg Fergus
Sheila Malcolmson
Francesco Sorbara
Michael McLeod
Gabriel Ste-Marie
Jennifer O'Connell

Also speaking

Lori Straznicky  Executive Director, Pay Equity Task Team, Strategic Policy, Analysis and Workplace Information, Labour Program, Department of Employment and Social Development
Peter Fragiskatos  London North Centre, Lib.
Kim Rudd  Northumberland—Peterborough South, Lib.
Richard Stuart  Executive Director, Expenditure Analysis and Compensation Planning, Expenditure Management Sector, Treasury Board Secretariat
Blaine Langdon  Director, Charities, Personal Income Tax Division, Tax Policy Branch, Department of Finance
Pierre Mercille  Director General, Sales Tax Division, Tax Policy Branch, Department of Finance
Mark Schaan  Director General, Marketplace Framework Policy Branch, Strategy and Innovation Policy Sector, Department of Industry
Khusro Saeedi  Economist, Consumer Affairs, Financial Institutions Division, Financial Sector Policy Branch, Department of Finance
Cathy McLeod  Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo, CPC
Eric Grant  Director, Community Lands Development, Lands and Environmental Management, Lands and Economic Development, Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development
Christopher Duschenes  Director General, Economic Policy Development, Lands and Environmental Management, Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development
Blake Richards  Banff—Airdrie, CPC
Barbara Moran  Director General, Strategic Policy, Analysis and Workplace, Labour Program, Department of Employment and Social Development
Sébastien St-Arnaud  Senior Policy Strategist, Strategic Policy and Legislative Reform, Labour Program, Department of Employment and Social Development
Charles Philippe Rochon  Senior Policy Analyst, Labour Standards and Wage Earner Protection Program, Workplace Directorate, Department of Employment and Social Development
Deirdre Kent  Director General, International Assistance Policy, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development
Louisa Pang  Director, International Finance and Development Division, Department of Finance
Joyce Patel  Acting Director, Lands Directorate, Lands and Environmental Management Branch, Lands and Economic Development, Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development
Clerk of the Committee  Mr. David Gagnon

6 p.m.

Conservative

Tom Kmiec Conservative Calgary Shepard, AB

What I heard during the debate on this clause was that there was agreement, I think, from some members on the substance, on the idea. Mr. Richards' motion before HUMA, duly passed by the House of Commons, deals with bereavement in a more general sense. This would be, I think, a specific letter on clause 470, more generally on leave in cases where parents have lost a child—not criminal-related, not kidnappings, none of those. It's not a disappearance. It would be a very specific thing to ask.

I have motions that I have tabled before this committee, asking for the committee to approve the chair's sending to another committee a letter asking for a study to be done. It's gentle nudging, the way I see it. It's just expressing our will on a substance or on an idea to just say, “Move faster. Consider the issue.” We're not telling them what to do, because we can't, but we can nudge them along. These are our colleagues, after all.

6 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Wayne Easter

Mr. Fergus.

6 p.m.

Liberal

Greg Fergus Liberal Hull—Aylmer, QC

Mr. Chair, I would like to finish the business of the BIA before we consider this, and then break and perhaps adjourn so that we can go and vote, please.

6 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Wayne Easter

We might be able to finish it all, but I'm just wondering on procedure, because the motion was already moved. If it's tabled, can it be brought back today? We really should technically finish this first and then deal with the motion. I want to ensure that Blake's motion gets dealt with today, so what happens if we table it?

Can he lift it from the table today?

On the advice of the clerk, we will deal with the motion first, and then we'll—

6:05 p.m.

Banff—Airdrie, CPC

Blake Richards

Mr. Chair, I sense that there is probably some desire to try to get a little time to consider this, or whatever. Because we do have bells, I would certainly allow us to have the vote first thing when we come back. We could suspend for the vote and then have the vote as soon as we get back. I still want the motion dealt with first, but I could do that if that would help government members.

6:05 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Wayne Easter

Can we deal with it this way then? Can we table this motion to after the vote and deal with the BIA now? There are only five votes left on this and then we're done. Then we would come back and deal with your motion.

6:05 p.m.

Banff—Airdrie, CPC

Blake Richards

What I'm saying, Mr. Chair, is that I don't want to table the motion. I want the vote to be the next thing that occurs. If we wanted to suspend for the votes, that would give the members, if that's what they're seeking, some time to consider it. Then we could come back after the vote and deal with it immediately and then move on.

6:05 p.m.

Liberal

Greg Fergus Liberal Hull—Aylmer, QC

I wanted it the other way. I wanted to make sure we get the business dealt with before the votes.

6:05 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Wayne Easter

We have a bit of a procedural problem.

6:05 p.m.

Banff—Airdrie, CPC

Blake Richards

Okay. If that's not the case, I do want the motion to—

6:05 p.m.

Conservative

Pierre Poilievre Conservative Carleton, ON

We probably could have had the motion done by now.

6:05 p.m.

Banff—Airdrie, CPC

Blake Richards

I misunderstood what the intention was, I guess.

6:05 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Wayne Easter

Mr. Julian.

6:05 p.m.

NDP

Peter Julian NDP New Westminster—Burnaby, BC

Because the vote is in 10 minutes, I don't think we'll be able to complete everything. It makes more sense, perhaps, to suspend now and come back after the votes, because we have two substantive things to do. I just don't think we're going to get through all of them. Let's take a break for the vote. We'll be back at seven, and we can continue then.

We have three votes.

6:05 p.m.

Liberal

Greg Fergus Liberal Hull—Aylmer, QC

Just for your information, we have 17 minutes left.

6:05 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Wayne Easter

We have 17 minutes left. Are people prepared to deal with the motion now?

6:05 p.m.

Liberal

Greg Fergus Liberal Hull—Aylmer, QC

I would prefer to deal with both.

6:05 p.m.

Some hon. members

Agreed.

6:05 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Wayne Easter

All right.

Are there any more arguments on the motion?

November 20th, 2018 / 6:05 p.m.

Banff—Airdrie, CPC

Blake Richards

We want a recorded vote.

6:05 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Wayne Easter

This is on the motion to draft a letter to suggest that the other committee deal with the report.

(Motion negatived: nays 5; yeas 4)

Shall clause 470 carry?

(Clause 470 agreed to on division)

(Schedules 1 and 2 agreed to on division)

Shall the short title carry?

6:05 p.m.

Some hon. members

Agreed.

6:05 p.m.

An hon. member

On division.

6:05 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Wayne Easter

Madam McLeod.

6:05 p.m.

Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo, CPC

Cathy McLeod

Mr. Chair, I do want to make one statement before we move to the final votes.

There are no longer hard copies provided. With 802 pages I guess they wanted to save us all from back injuries.

My concern is that there were three sections that related to my portfolio. There were no linkable links, so in order to actually get to the part of the BIA, in 802 pages, you actually had to scroll with a very slow-loading document. I think that if this ever happens again, it is a point of privilege for parliamentarians to do the work they need to do. Division 11, division 12 and division 19 were completely inaccessible for me to look at. I think it's unacceptable for a government to present an 802-page budget document in a form so that members of Parliament cannot actually look at the divisions they need to look at in an appropriate way.