Finance Committee on Nov. 20th, 2018

[Peter Julian, NDP, New Westminster—Burnaby, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

This establishes an amendment on page 138, adding after line 27 the following:

The Governor in Council may make regulations establishing a system of administrative monetary penalties applicable to contraventions of specified provisions of this Act or regulations and setting the amounts of those penalties.

It allows the Governor in Council, essentially, to provide for more appropriate administrative penalties for transgressions. My comments earlier apply to this particular clause in this amendment.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Ms. Rudd, I believe you're up.

[Kim Rudd]

Thank you, Chair.

Similar to my prior comments, this amendment would add new and potentially expansive elements to the act. It would address an outcome not yet addressed through the ongoing federal-provincial-territorial discussions on the beneficial ownership transparency.

It is therefore out the scope of the current amendments and I won't be supporting it.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

If there is no further discussion on NDP-7 from anyone around the table, I will call the vote.

(Amendment negatived on division)

(Clause 183 agreed to on division)

(Clauses 184 to 186 inclusive agreed to on division)

Thank you, folks.

On the intellectual property strategy, division 7, there are witnesses here at the table on that section. There are no amendments on clauses 187 to 246. There are amendments from the Liberals and the Conservatives on clause 247.

(Clauses 187 to 246 inclusive agreed to on division)

(On clause 247)

On clause 247, we have Liberal-2.

Who's up?

Mr. Sorbara.

[Francesco Sorbara, Liberal, Vaughan—Woodbridge, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

We have the departmental officials here.

The LIB-2 and LIB-3 both deal directly with clause 247.

My understanding on this—and I'm just referring to my notes—is that the amendment will replace the term “committee” with the term “steering committee” in proposed paragraphs 14(d) and 17(e) of the college of patent agents and trademark agents act. These sections set up eligibility requirements for positions as a director on the board of the college of patent agents and trademark agents.

I would like to refer to the department officials in terms of what the amendments would do to the existing legislation in the way it's written, please.

[Mark Schaan]

Thank you for the question.

In the original wording, there would have been a proposed cooling-off period for individuals who had served within the professional body or association of the profession whose primary goal was advocacy.

In discussions with stakeholders and others, the feeling was that the current structure of the professional associations related to this are quite broad. Their use of the term “committee” is quite a diffuse one, with hundreds of people of their very small membership engaged in committee activity.

Further precision, by making this clear that it's a steering committee—that is, a leadership decision-making body—will ensure that there is still appropriate distance and objectivity for those who serve as directors, but not such that we preclude the college from finding sufficient potential candidates to fulfill the role of directors of the college.

[Francesco Sorbara, Liberal, Vaughan—Woodbridge, ON]

That's great, because the stakeholder did voice concerns about not allowing individuals who have subject matter expertise on the steering committee.

This amendment would clarify that. Is that correct?

[Mark Schaan]

Correct.

[Francesco Sorbara, Liberal, Vaughan—Woodbridge, ON]

I'm all right, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Is there any further discussion?

Mr. Julian.

[Peter Julian, NDP, New Westminster—Burnaby, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

A steering committee is defined differently than a committee. Do you have copies of the definition in law, so that I can understand the distinction?

I understand what the amendment is going for, but I don't understand the distinction in law between a steering committee and a committee.

[Mark Schaan]

A committee potentially could be construed by the college as constituting any body that the professional association deems to be organizing, which could be the social committee, whereas the steering committee is generally understood to be a decision-making body empowered by the leadership of the organization to make decisions.

[Peter Julian, NDP, New Westminster—Burnaby, BC]

Is a steering committee defined in law as the equivalent of an executive or a board of directors?

[Mark Schaan]

The term “steering committee” is not necessarily a precise legal one. This is going to be adjudicated by the college to ensure they are in line with the legislative framework, so we wanted to provide the college with some precision as to how they will enact this as they follow through with the set-up of the college.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Go ahead, Peter. The floor is yours.

[Peter Julian, NDP, New Westminster—Burnaby, BC]

I believe I'm going to be supporting this amendment.

To my Liberal colleagues, it's not that difficult to support an amendment coming from the other side. We've gone through a lot in this bill today. A lot of the flaws have not been fixed. This appears to be a flaw that should be fixed as well.

Why would you fix this flaw and not all the other flaws in the legislation that have been identified by witnesses? I'm saddened by this, Mr. Chair. We have a bill that has many flaws, and so far today virtually none of them have been fixed. Ultimately, it will result in court challenges.

Here is a flaw that can be fixed easily, but it requires all parties working together. Sadly, that hasn't been the case today.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Mr. Fergus.

[Greg Fergus, Liberal, Hull—Aylmer, QC]

For Mr. Julian's edification, in the last BIA, part 1, a number of opposition modifications were adopted. Whether individual members feel they should adopt them is a matter of good faith. There you go.

(Amendment agreed to [See Minutes of Proceedings])

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Who's up on LIB-3?

Mr. Sorbara.

[Francesco Sorbara, Liberal, Vaughan—Woodbridge, ON]

My comments on LIB-2 are exactly the same for LIB-3. This is again in reference to clause 247 and ensuring that individuals with subject matter expertise are not precluded from sitting on committees. Can I get any clarification from department officials on that?

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Mr. Schaan.

[Mark Schaan]

This is just an amendment to ensure consistency between proposed section 14 and proposed section 17.

[Francesco Sorbara, Liberal, Vaughan—Woodbridge, ON]

Thank you.

(Amendment agreed to [See Minutes of Proceedings])

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

On CPC-2, we have Mr. Kmiec.

[Tom Kmiec, Conservative, Calgary Shepard, AB]

It's a bit wordier than I would like it to be. If somebody has a better wording for this, the goal is that the CEO not be the registrar and the registrar not be the CEO.

This is very common in many provincial associations. They separate the person responsible for the day-to-day financial administration and financial well-being of the organization from the person who determines whether individuals applying to become certified members with a designation can meet the threshold. When you have it in the same person—and you do in some of the smaller associations—you create an incentive to get in as many new members as possible, because that ensures the financial well-being of the college.

Back in Alberta there's APEGA for engineers. ASET for engineering technologists does this too. They separate the two roles, and they sometimes make it very explicit in the law. The accounting profession is in this manner. Also, some of the smaller associations do it through their bylaws.

I'm thinking we can get to that here. If there's a nicer way of wording it, I'm all ears. This is the wording provided by the drafters.