Can I respond?
Evidence of meeting #209 for Finance in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was mining.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Evidence of meeting #209 for Finance in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was mining.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Liberal
Director, Canadian Tax Advisory, Moodys Gartner Tax Law
First of all, don't put words in my mouth. I never said “favourably” to France. I'm just pointing out that there are many countries around the world, and I focused on France because it's recent. Do I think that those examples that you've listed are exhaustive? Not in the least, and you would have that from a quick search on Google. Much more research and much more thought needs to be done than quick Google searches.
Director, Canadian Tax Advisory, Moodys Gartner Tax Law
And the bottom line is that our industry—
Liberal
Peter Fragiskatos Liberal London North Centre, ON
—the information that I cited, so that the record reflects it, comes from the Columbia Journalism Review. I respect that journal, Mr. Chair.
Liberal
Director, Canadian Tax Advisory, Moodys Gartner Tax Law
All I was about to say, before I was interrupted, was we should be looking at a much more systemic review of what the root causes are, and I explained what I think the root causes are: the Internet giants sucking away advertising revenues. Instead of a knee-jerk response to these so-called incentives, we should be looking at something much more thorough.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Wayne Easter
We'll let you close off the discussion, Mr. Fragiskatos, and then go over to Mr. Poilievre and then back to Mr. McLeod.
Liberal
Peter Fragiskatos Liberal London North Centre, ON
Mr. Chair, I simply made the point that countries have pursued the objective of supporting journalism as a critical part of democracy and they've taken various measures, various approaches, to create a situation whereby media can thrive, certainly independently of government.
With all due respect, Mr. Moody, you pointed to the example of France. You talked about the French example in favourable terms. You advised that the government look at—
Conservative
Pierre Poilievre Conservative Carleton, ON
I do think it's interesting that Mr. Fragiskatos, in the same breath, accuses others of trickle-down economics and then cites as his most favourable endorsement that of the head of the IMF, Christine Lagarde, who was found criminally guilty of negligence for giving $400 million to a business tycoon. That is exactly the kind of trickle-down economics we've seen from this government, to take from the working class, give to the super rich through hand-outs and bailouts, and then hope that a few pennies trickle back down to the people who earned it in the first place. It's called trickle-down government.
Conservative
Pierre Poilievre Conservative Carleton, ON
I know, Chair, and there are certain debates you like and others you don't. This one wouldn't be the one you'd like. I wouldn't want to be running on it in P.E.I. if I were you, either. So I can understand why you'd like me to move on to something else.
Out of deference to you, still, I will ask a question—
Conservative
Pierre Poilievre Conservative Carleton, ON
I'll ask Mr. Moody a question.
When you look at the tax regime in Canada and you compare it to our competitor jurisdictions, do you believe that high taxes are driving money out of the country?
Director, Canadian Tax Advisory, Moodys Gartner Tax Law
Absolutely. No question.
Conservative
Director, Canadian Tax Advisory, Moodys Gartner Tax Law
I think the knee-jerk response would be to reduce tax rates, both corporate and personal, especially personal. Having said that, I think the more thorough and better response is what this committee has probably heard dozens and dozens of times, which is comprehensive tax review. I've been a big believer, like most tax practitioners, for at least a dozen years, at least. This is not a new issue. I think some government needs to have the courage to actually do it, because it's the right thing to do.
Conservative
Pierre Poilievre Conservative Carleton, ON
What would it look like to you? What would tax reform look like?
Director, Canadian Tax Advisory, Moodys Gartner Tax Law
You know what? I'm going in with an open mind. I would want to go in with an open mind. Everything is on the table.
Conservative
Pierre Poilievre Conservative Carleton, ON
What I'm hearing from my constituents is they feel like there's almost a war on work, when you consider how much a person loses out of a dollar that they earn. Right now, the average Canadian spends more on tax than on food, clothing and shelter combined. Let the record show that my Liberal colleagues snicker at these facts. Average people back home don't snicker at it.
When they earn the dollar, they pay, let's say, 40¢ in income tax and payroll tax. So they have 60¢ left. Then on every purchase they make with that remaining 60¢, they pay 13% or 14% in sales tax, depending on the jurisdiction in which they find themselves. Then they're paying gas tax and carbon tax and HST on both those taxes. If they're all taxed out and they need to have a drink, they're now paying higher taxes on beer, wine and spirits, a tax that rises automatically every single year. They know the government is supplying a future tax increase in the form of large, unnecessary deficits, which we know if they continue will metastasize into yet further tax increases.
Do you believe there is a disincentive to work and get ahead when the tax burden is as high as it is in Canada today?