Evidence of meeting #215 for Finance in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was chair.

A video is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Maude Lavoie  Director General, Business Income Tax Division, Tax Policy Branch, Department of Finance
Trevor McGowan  Director General, Tax Legislation Division, Tax Policy Branch, Department of Finance
Charlene Davidson  Senior Project Leader, Financial Crimes Policy, Financial Systems Division, Financial Sector Policy, Department of Finance
Samuel Millar  Director General, Corporate Finance, Natural Resources and Environment, Economic Development and Corporate Finance, Department of Finance
Clerk of the Committee  Mr. David Gagnon
Darryl C. Patterson  Director, Corporate, Insolvency and Competition Policy Directorate, Marketplace Framework Policy Branch, Department of Industry
Tolga Yalkin  Director General, Consumer Product Safety Directorate, Department of Health
Colin Stacey  Acting Director General, Pilotage Act Review, Department of Transport
Sara Wiebe  Director General, Air Policy, Department of Transport
Joyce Henry  Director General, Office of Energy Efficiency, Energy Sector, Department of Natural Resources
André Baril  Senior Director, Refugee Affairs, Department of Citizenship and Immigration
Michel Tremblay  Senior Vice-President, Policy and Innovation, Canada Mortgage and Housing Corporation
Ariane Gagné-Frégeau  Procedural Clerk
Karen Hall  Director General, Social Policy Directorate, Strategic and Service Policy Branch, Department of Employment and Social Development
Hugues Vaillancourt  Senior Director, Social Development Policy Division, Social Policy Directorate, Strategic and Service Policy Branch, Department of Employment and Social Development

11:45 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Wayne Easter

There's not much relation to the discussion here, but that's information.

11:45 a.m.

Conservative

Tom Kmiec Conservative Calgary Shepard, AB

An editorial.

11:45 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Wayne Easter

Does anybody else want to speak to this, or are there any questions for the officials?

(Amendment negatived [See Minutes of Proceedings])

Next is CPC-3.

Mr. Kmiec.

11:45 a.m.

Conservative

Tom Kmiec Conservative Calgary Shepard, AB

It's basically the same point as before.

I'm eliminating lines 31 to 38 on page 91. That's the back end. I have the algebraic formula here; I won't cause you pain by taking you through it. Basically, it would delete entirely the deemed rebate fuel charges section.

That goes back to the rebating. If the editorial that Mr. Sorbara was so kind to share with us is correct, the 97%, I think it's incumbent upon the government to make sure that the Canadians who ticked off the boxes actually see it as a line item when they get their rebate, as opposed to it being delivered to them through some type of government program or infrastructure program, which this mechanism continues to allow.

11:45 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Wayne Easter

All right, CPC-3 requires a royal recommendation, so the amendment is inadmissible. I'll explain for the record why.

Clause 129 of Bill C-97 establishes a formula to specify amounts that may be paid out of the consolidated revenue fund for the climate action support. Amendment CPC-3 attempts to modify the formula.

House of Commons Procedure and Practice, third edition, states on page 772:

Since an amendment may not infringe upon the financial initiative of the Crown, it is inadmissible if it imposes a charge on the public treasury, or if it extends the objects or purposes or relaxes the conditions and qualifications specified in the royal recommendation.

In the opinion of the chair, the amendment proposed is a new formula which seeks to alter the terms and conditions of the royal recommendation and therefore, amendment CPC-3 is inadmissible.

We're now on CPC-4

11:50 a.m.

Conservative

Tom Kmiec Conservative Calgary Shepard, AB

Again, it's following my attempt to try to make honesty in talking points amendments, just to make sure that what the public expects to see is what the public will actually get. This series of amendments attempts to achieve that purpose.

11:50 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Wayne Easter

Is there any discussion?

Mr. Fragiskatos.

11:50 a.m.

Liberal

Peter Fragiskatos Liberal London North Centre, ON

Much like before, Mr. Chair, with CPC-2, the proposed amendment ought to be defeated. The reason is that the clause is needed to provide clarity that the payments made out of the consolidated revenue fund by ministers other than the Minister of National Revenue for a specified province for a specific time count as the government's return of direct fuel charge proceeds and do not have to be returned again to provinces.

11:50 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Wayne Easter

Okay. Is there any further discussion?

(Amendment negatived [See Minutes of Proceedings])

Amendment CPC-4 is lost.

Shall clause 129 carry without amendment?

11:50 a.m.

Conservative

Tom Kmiec Conservative Calgary Shepard, AB

I'm sorry, Mr. Chair, but what about CPC-5?

11:50 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Wayne Easter

It applies to clause 131.

Shall clause 129 carry?

(Clauses 129 and 130 agreed to on division)

(On clause 131)

On clause 131, we have CPC-5.

Go ahead, Mr. Kmiec.

11:50 a.m.

Conservative

Tom Kmiec Conservative Calgary Shepard, AB

This is to increase transparency. I'm adding in a section, basically, to have the tabling within three months after the end of the fiscal year. It's the same thing: It's for greater clarity and more transparency. I don't think anybody would be opposed to having the Minister of Finance table more reports in order to provide complete information to the House of Commons.

I don't see how that's a problem. I struggle with the ATIP system already, and I've put in lots of complaints to the commissioner. This would be a way to go around that, to provide information up front and save me the trouble of getting responses to my $5 access to information requests 180-plus days after they're supposed to be given to me.

11:50 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Wayne Easter

Just think of the staff time it would save, too.

Go ahead, Mr. McLeod.

11:50 a.m.

Liberal

Michael McLeod Liberal Northwest Territories, NT

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Chair, this amendment proposes a function that already exists in the reporting framework of the recipient. The FCM, the Federation of Canadian Municipalities, has a reporting framework for the green municipal fund and has been producing reports since the year 2000, so I don't think this amendment is required.

11:50 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Wayne Easter

Mr. Dusseault is next, and then Mr. Kmiec.

11:50 a.m.

NDP

Pierre-Luc Dusseault NDP Sherbrooke, QC

I would like some clarification. Perhaps the officials could provide some assistance.

Do the FCM's reports go only to the ministers, or are they tabled in both houses of Parliament?

11:50 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Wayne Easter

Can the officials...?

11:50 a.m.

NDP

Pierre-Luc Dusseault NDP Sherbrooke, QC

I imagine they are published. Publishing them online is good, but it's not the same as tabling them in both houses. That's different.

11:50 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Wayne Easter

Can anyone answer that question?

Go ahead, Mr. Millar.

11:50 a.m.

Samuel Millar Director General, Corporate Finance, Natural Resources and Environment, Economic Development and Corporate Finance, Department of Finance

I'm sorry, Mr. Chair. I am here specifically on clause 129. I don't believe I'm in a position to speak to clause 131.

11:50 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Wayne Easter

Is there anybody here who can speak to clause 131?

Go ahead, Mr. McLeod.

11:50 a.m.

Liberal

Michael McLeod Liberal Northwest Territories, NT

Mr. Chair, the FCM is required to make an annual report on the fund's activities and performance no later than five months after the fiscal year and must convey it to the ministers of natural resources, infrastructure and communities, and environment and climate change for tabling in Parliament.

May 27th, 2019 / 11:50 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Wayne Easter

The report goes to ministers, and they table it in Parliament. Is that what I'm hearing?

11:50 a.m.

Liberal

Michael McLeod Liberal Northwest Territories, NT

That's my understanding, yes.

11:50 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Wayne Easter

Can we get that confirmed by anyone?

Mr. Dusseault, are you satisfied with that, or do you want us to stand this clause and have an official come in? We can do that if necessary.