Finance Committee on June 16th, 2016

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

I call the meeting to order.

At the last meeting, Mr. Falcon Ouellette had the floor.

On the agenda that went out, we proposed that we would deal with the budget for the pre-budget consultation process first, and then we would come back to Mr. Caron's motion.

Mr. Falcon Ouellette, you have the floor to start.

On the budget, I think I reported previously that the subcommittee on committee budgets of the liaison committee had asked us to do everything we could to reduce this to below $190,000. The library and the clerk worked at this, and we made some changes in the original proposal that would reduce it down to $182,146. That would, over a three-week period, get us to all the capital cities, with the exception that we'd go to Kelowna instead of Vancouver. I know not everybody is happy with that. I think there will be some speaking up on it.

In any event, in order to have any hope of this committee travelling to do its pre-budget consultations, to travel to the regions, we really need a motion to discharge the original motion, which put us at $241,000, and then a new motion on three of the budgets to bring us down to $182,000-plus. I feel very confident we can get that through the budget liaison committee.

We need a motion or agreement to discharge the original budget. Then we'll come in with a new one.

Agreed?

Mr. Aboultaif.

[Ziad Aboultaif, Conservative, Edmonton Manning, AB]

I think the amounts on these four pages equal more than $200,000.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

The first page doesn't count. Yes, you are correct. That's for the work in here. Your math is correct, Ziad.

Are we agreed on discharging the first budget?

[Some hon. members]

Agreed.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Okay. We need a motion in the amount of.... We'll leave that one for last. There's going to be a discussion on that one, I believe, with Mr. Liepert.

We need a motion for $43,207 to travel to Quebec City and Toronto on pre-budget hearings.

[Steven MacKinnon, Liberal, Gatineau, QC]

I so move.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

It's moved by Mr. MacKinnon, and seconded by Mr.—

No? Okay. I thought you were right in agreement. Go ahead. It's on the floor.

[Ron Liepert, Conservative, Calgary Signal Hill, AB]

I would like to have a general discussion before we start approving individual budgets. As I said the other day, Mr. Chairman, I really believe these three trips, whether they're four days, five days, or whatever their length, need to be divided evenly among, first, the three western provinces; second, Manitoba and Ontario; and third, Quebec and Atlantic Canada.

As I stated the other day, most of the presenters we get here when we hold our hearings in Ottawa typically come from central Canada. I really think this is an opportunity for the committee to get a better sense of some of the challenges faced by the three western provinces.

If we approve these individually the way they are, I cannot support them. I would like to ask the committee to reconsider the various locations that we travel to. I don't believe it has to increase the cost; it's just a matter of re-juggling where we're going and when.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Mr. MacKinnon.

[Steven MacKinnon, Liberal, Gatineau, QC]

Well, I think we're extremely sympathetic to all of those points. To my honourable friend, I think it's a logistical issue, frankly, more than a philosophical one at this point. I would also note that the reduction of some $40,000 to $50,000 in the budget available for the consultation has required a little bit of rebalancing. As a general proposition, I think we're extremely sensitive to and in agreement with your suggestion. I think, equitably, going to every provincial capital, with one or two exceptions, is kind of the approach.

What would you change in that? Would you have us have more locations in the west and fewer in the east? We dropped a couple in the east, as I understand it, Montreal and Windsor, but kept all of the western locations.

[Ron Liepert, Conservative, Calgary Signal Hill, AB]

Well, as I say, the exact locations we can discuss, but I'm talking in generalities about spending one-third of our time in the three westernmost provinces, one-third of our time in what is, effectively, central Canada and Manitoba, and one-third of our time in what is effectively central and Atlantic Canada. I think that this committee will recognize that, as we head through 2016, the challenges that are going to be faced in the three western provinces are going to be significant. The reality of people travelling from western Canada to appear before this committee in Ottawa is much more substantive than it is jumping on an airplane at Pearson and coming to Ottawa for the day.

I just think that this is a great opportunity for this committee. At the end of the day, we'll do what we want to do, but I will not support not using the three western provinces as one of our three visits.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Okay, turning to Raj, just to tell you how we got to the new numbers—and Steve is right; we dropped two cities in central Canada—we saved $1,850 in changes to the west; in changes to the east, we saved $33,312, and by dropping two cities in Ontario we saved $24,017. That's how we managed it. We managed to slice $60,000 off the proposal.

Mr. Grewal.

[Raj Grewal, Liberal, Brampton East, ON]

I just want some clarification.

How are we spending our time? It looks like we're spending one-third, one-third, one-third, because we're only in Toronto and Quebec City, and then we're out west in Kelowna, Edmonton, Regina, and Winnipeg, and then we're in Fredericton, Charlottetown, and Halifax.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

And St. John's.

[Raj Grewal, Liberal, Brampton East, ON]

I don't think we're going to St. John's.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

No, that's right. That was what was dropped.

[Raj Grewal, Liberal, Brampton East, ON]

Just to clarify, Ron, what more would you add to it, for discussion purposes?

[Ron Liepert, Conservative, Calgary Signal Hill, AB]

Well, to follow up on what you just said, we're allocating as much of our time to Quebec City and Toronto as we are to the four western provinces. I'm suggesting that folks in Quebec City and Toronto have a much easier opportunity to appear before our committee on a regular basis, if you will, than people do from western Canada. I think we could nicely fit into this budget spending one-third of our time in the three western provinces, one-third of our time in Ontario and Manitoba, and one-third of our time in Quebec and the Atlantic.

[Raj Grewal, Liberal, Brampton East, ON]

Sorry, Ron, just for clarification, where does it say how much we're spending in terms of time?

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

We are four days in Kelowna, Edmonton, Regina, and Winnipeg. In terms of Mr. Liepert's point, his break point is Saskatchewan and west, whereas we're saying the west is Winnipeg and west, I guess. It's one day in each of those locations. I don't think we're fixed on the number of hours we spend in hearings in each location as yet.

[Steven MacKinnon, Liberal, Gatineau, QC]

No, there's no limit.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

It'll depend on the witnesses. We can spend more hours in some of those western locations, I expect, Ron, if there's interest. We are only a day each in Quebec and Ontario. Fredericton, Charlottetown, and Halifax, we're a day each there.

[Raj Grewal, Liberal, Brampton East, ON]

That would be eight days in all.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Nine.

[Raj Grewal, Liberal, Brampton East, ON]

Nine days in total.