Finance Committee on Sept. 21st, 2016

[Robert-Falcon Ouellette, Liberal, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

I was wondering if you know how many of those businesses were on a reserve or an urban reserve.

I'm sorry. They're very specific questions because there's an issue in Manitoba with urban reserves. It seems that we have difficulty getting them established through AADNC or INAC. I'd like to know if the Western Development agency is able to partner and develop them on urban reserves.

[Doug Zolinsky]

That's a piece of information I don't have and which I can get. I just finished reading it. The reason I remember it is that it talked about how off-reserve businesses tend to be more successful than on-reserve businesses. I don't recall the reasons, but I just read that last night so I'm pretty sure I can find you that information.

[Robert-Falcon Ouellette, Liberal, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

That's perfect.

I was also wondering if you offer services to other companies that might be dealing with indigenous populations, perhaps to explain laws or constitutional requirements, consultation, and other things like that. I know that you also offer a lot of services as well, right?

[Doug Zolinsky]

Right. We do offer pathfinding and convening services to all businesses. We do put an indigenous lens on a lot of what we do, there's no doubt about it. With the new government's emphasis on indigenous economic growth, we're having a very close look at that.

I do have some other numbers here that speak to our other programs. WED has provided $10 million in support of nine indigenous economic growth projects since 2013. These projects supported indigenous skills training, business development, entrepreneurship, and clean technology. WED prioritizes the development of the indigenous and northern communities in Saskatchewan with funds from the Canada 150 community infrastructure program, CIP 150. About one in six projects approved under the first intake of CIP 150 were in indigenous and northern communities in Saskatchewan. Also, of course, we also do work as a signatory to the strategic partnerships initiative.

[Robert-Falcon Ouellette, Liberal, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

You mentioned training programs. We seem to be doing a lot of training of aboriginal people for various things.

I was wondering if you could get more specific numbers, perhaps at a later date, about actual companies that were founded and that have led to or are leading to long-term jobs, because at the end of the day I think that's we want in these communities. We want people to have employment in some long-term fashion. Doing a training program is very valuable and noble. Education is a noble endeavour, but at some point you need that money coming in, and you need people going out there and being able to make some of that money to support their families. I guess at a later date I'd like to get some more information.

In your opinion, what really stops investment in indigenous communities? What are perhaps some of the challenges you have discovered?

[Doug Zolinsky]

Where to begin? We will get you the information you're asking for.

James just passed me another indicator that I can add. We have two CFs in northern Saskatchewan. In the past year, Beaver River has done 103 loans valued at $4.2 million, creating 219 jobs. Visions North did 13 loans valued at $767,000, creating seven positions.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

I'll have to cut you off there. What is CF?

[Doug Zolinsky]

It's Community Futures.

[Robert-Falcon Ouellette, Liberal, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

Yes, Community Futures. Sorry—acronyms.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

You can send that information to the clerk if you would, please, Mr. Zolinsky.

[Doug Zolinsky]

Sure.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Mr. McColeman.

[Phil McColeman, Conservative, Brantford—Brant, ON]

Thank you, Chair.

If you could identify one thing that the federal government could do moving forward to help your economy in Saskatchewan, what would that be?

[Doug Zolinsky]

I firmly believe in diversifying the economy, because in Saskatchewan, of course, we have seen over the decades, for as long as my grandparents know and my parents know, boom and bust cycles of resources. We would love to see investment in innovation that would diversify the Saskatchewan economy. It's as simple as that.

[Phil McColeman, Conservative, Brantford—Brant, ON]

It seems to me, having visited the carbon capture and storage facility and seeing that technology about five or six years ago, I guess, and hearing you speak today about it, that it perhaps has not nearly become the future, and that the innovation of it is perhaps not as promising as it was back then. Am I reading it correctly that way? At that time, it was leading edge. I remember that we were there looking at it as something that governments could work with and assist in making this technology a workable technology to commercialize.

Can you fill in the story over what's happened with that and why it hasn't taken off?

[Doug Zolinsky]

I think the number one reason that it has not taken off is just the costs associated with those facilities. There have been a couple in Alberta that I think have finally come on stream a bit. They were very expensive and were supported by the Alberta government. You might get a better answer there.

We have also seen some of these types of facilities in Europe cease because of costs. They are very expensive, and that's probably the main reason why they are not being created like rabbits. They are not everywhere just because of cost.

[Phil McColeman, Conservative, Brantford—Brant, ON]

Right. Hopefully you can refine the technology over time, but I guess that just isn't happening. That's not a great thing to hear, especially with all the new coal-fired plants that are being built around the world as we speak.

What would be the effect of the Energy East pipeline on Saskatchewan?

[Doug Zolinsky]

The effect of the Energy East pipeline would be a very positive one. We've heard that from our premier on many occasions.

There are the initial construction jobs, of course, in the pipeline coming through Saskatchewan. There is that piece. Just the ability to get more oil, whether it's from the oil sands or from the heavy oil fields of Saskatchewan, out of that block and to the east is an economic boom to Saskatchewan.

[Phil McColeman, Conservative, Brantford—Brant, ON]

So it's a big win if it is approved?

[Doug Zolinsky]

If I'm reading all the numbers I see out of the province, it's a big win.

[Phil McColeman, Conservative, Brantford—Brant, ON]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

That's it for you, Mr. McColeman.

Mr. Sorbara will be the last questioner.

[Francesco Sorbara, Liberal, Vaughan—Woodbridge, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Welcome.

Saskatchewan, I firmly believe, still has a wonderful and bright future ahead of it. Crop yields will continue to be one measurement and will continue to rise. For the use of potash in the future, there'll still be a strong demand for that commodity. Yes, it is cyclical, but things go on, and you need to feed people in the world, whether it's in India, China, here in North America, or wherever else.

Technology is helping with that, with geopositioning and all those wonderful things, so in my terms I look at Saskatchewan and I think it's uniquely positioned, whether it's lentils or even oil. RBC came out with a report yesterday saying that there has been such a cutback in capital investment in the oil industry that you're going to move into a situation where demand is continuing to rise for oil globally, and you'll see a steady recovery in oil prices in the years to come. It may not go to where it was prior to this, because I think that was—and this is a personal opinion—a self-induced bubble from quantitative easing and all the money or liquidity that went into commodity funds.

I do wish to ask, on the investments you're making in clean technology or in that vein, if you can give us some colour on that. I do believe innovation in clean technology is the way on many levels, including with regard to oil and gas and other industries, but if you can talk about that area, that would be wonderful.

[Doug Zolinsky]

As James was just pointing out, WED is committed to doubling our expenditures on clean technology. In our case, in our WINN fund, that's an extra $25 million that will be devoted to expenditures in clean technologies across the west. There's that piece. That is being done, just as you said, in the belief that there are opportunities in clean technology for diversifying the future economy across the west.

I have some other statistics here. Since 2013, WED has provided Saskatchewan $1.1 million in support of nine clean technology projects in Saskatchewan. These projects have leveraged a further $21.6 million from other investors.

I'll give you an example of one I like. Again, it's from 2013. It was a small project of $300,000 to the First Nations Power Authority to develop small-scale and off-grid renewable power generation technologies. That was in partnership with SaskPower and...was it General Dynamics?

[A voice]

Lockheed Martin.