In terms of the risk transfer, one thing that the Ontario auditor general found was that $6 billion of that $8 billion was actually double-counting of risk and was inappropriate. That's a significant amount and the auditor general found absolutely no evidence, no empirical evidence, for that risk transfer.
I also want to go to the point that Mr. Liepert made that it's better to have some more competition. I would absolutely agree. The problem is that in that whole P3 world.... This is another thing that came out in the auditor general's report. There are a few big firms and they basically carve up the business themselves. Smaller businesses, the Canadian Construction Association, engineers, architects, and others have been critical of P3s because they don't open up competition. We have a few big firms that compete and basically carve up the business themselves. That's a factor there.
In many small communities, those benefits don't trickle down. In fact, some of the companies are basically tax havens. They don't even get the benefit from corporate income tax.