Finance Committee on Oct. 17th, 2016

[Christian Brun]

What we were told approximately five to seven years ago was that the fishery was a sunset industry and ACOA was closed for business. We managed to get a few programs through but we were very creative, to say the least, and they brought some fantastic results. It was more of a structural issue on how to organize the fishery, etc., but we are at a point where we've demonstrated what we can do in terms of export results. I believe that we need to have a very strong conversation with ACOA explaining that this has become an important industry. It always has been. The fishing industry has been one of those consistent industries, even though it runs through some problems. We're dealing with an ocean, we don't see what's underneath. You can't just plug in some seed and see it grow and take care of it. You basically don't know what's going on until you get some problems sometimes, climate change or whatever else.

I think that ACOA has to come around and understand that this has been an industry that has kept on becoming more important and at this point in time it needs some innovation investment, it needs some R and D, some thinking, and we're ready to meet those challenges, or to take them on.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Anyone else?

Ms. Ross and then Mr. Gaunce.

[Krista Ross]

I certainly think if ACOA is suggesting that there's no opportunity to provide ACOA funding here in our region, they're mistaken. I think there are lots of opportunities. I sit on a board that provides seed loans to small businesses that are just getting started, and these are basically micro-loans, $20,000 or less. And each year we run out of money to loan to these businesses, and here in Fredericton we have, I believe, a 95% payback rate. We've done very well in making sure that we're loaning this money to companies that become successful. Oftentimes the small amount of seed money is used to leverage other funding, other investment, even from other levels of government, but private investment as well. To suggest there's no need for extra money here from ACOA...I beg to differ.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Mr. Gaunce.

[Paul Gaunce]

I'd echo your comments.

I'm shocked and disappointed that they gave you that kind of reception when you asked them if we needed more money, or there were people looking for money.

I think the issue is that ACOA has not sold itself well in the Maritimes as a lending agency for innovation and growth. A lot of people don't have a clue what they do, and I've heard from more than Mr. Brun about them being a closed shop, “Oh well, you don't fit in to what we want to lend money to”. Well, excuse me. If I have a business that's going to innovate and grow, then I see it.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Mr. Fudge.

[Paul Fudge]

Thank you, Chair.

I am surprised to hear that comment; on the other hand, I'm not surprised. What we find, from our point of view, is that there are different agencies in the federal government, and the teams don't like to play in the same sandbox. If there is innovation money for business development and things like that, I can find a lot of places where ACOA can help.

In the last few years, there was an Atlantic Canada program for regional development offices, but the funding was withdrawn and the offices were closed. That goes right to my point about access for business people in rural areas. That money was withdrawn and those items closed.

As for the new policies, there is the Department of Fisheries, there is agriculture, and there is the Business Development Bank Canada, but if ACOA had funding and could get into the smaller areas, like maybe a fisheries loan board for the province, that could help with the financing of business transitions for fishers and farmers.

However, what about the technology enhancements they have? ACOA has money for those, but they're not allowed to play, or they do so only rarely. Their having the expertise and the extra money would certainly go a long way.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Thank you.

Mr. Grewal, go ahead.

[Raj Grewal, Liberal, Brampton East, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair, and my thanks to all the witnesses for this testimony today.

It's my first time out east so I'm pretty excited to be here.

I did my research before I got to New Brunswick. On the immigration question, you're having trouble sustaining your population in the province. There are more people who pass away in New Brunswick than are born each year. As to the bleak economic outlook, one of the growing sectors is seniors care, which isn't ideal for a future economy.

Can you quickly comment on how we give the kids born in New Brunswick an incentive to stay and build here? You have 10 seconds each, because my time is very limited.

[Paul Gaunce]

The good news is that my son just built a new house on our farm, so he's staying. The point is, you have to have a job that makes them want to stay. I don't think any kid wants to leave New Brunswick. A few do want to leave, but a lot of them are forced to leave just to get a better job. I don't mean a McDonald's or a Tim Hortons job; I mean a job that will allow them to support a family and maybe start a business and have a home.

I think our whole country has an issue with taxation, and the reason is that we're supporting an infrastructure for a land base the size of the United States with a population only 10% of what the United States has. The whole country needs immigration. We need it big time to make this country more lucrative. Job creation is exactly the way you get those kids to stay in the province.

[Raj Grewal, Liberal, Brampton East, ON]

Ms. Ross.

[Krista Ross]

Certainly we are facing demographic and economic challenges here. Your colleague MP Alaina Lockhartis very supportive of the Atlantic immigration strategy, which will see more people coming to our region. With that and with programs like our succession connect program, we hope to be able to attract and retain more newcomers to our region. We have about a 63% retention rate for newcomers who come here, and we'd like to see that increased. It would be great to see it at over 75%.

One area is negative, but it does have a right side. Currently we face a nearly 10% unemployment rate, which means we have an available workforce. We simply need to get people skilled up to the right skills. We also have a skills gap. There are 3,600 jobs right now on the NB job board, and many of those are IT-focused. We need to make sure we are training people in the right sectors and looking at supporting people with credential recognition, such as newcomers who are qualified in their home countries. To be able to recognize their credentials when they come here is a really important thing, and we need to do it quickly so they can hit the ground running and become part of our economy.

[Raj Grewal, Liberal, Brampton East, ON]

Thank you.

Are there any other comments?

[Mike Legere]

Just quickly on that, there's not a lot to comment in addition to what's been said, but for us in particular, in the forestry sector, there are jobs pending, whether in silviculture, up to highly technical jobs, mechanized forestry operators. It's the ability to match the immigrant skills with the requirement that we have. Running a piece of mechanized forestry equipment today is not like a chainsaw, there's a skill set there to operate a half-million-dollar piece of equipment. Our challenge is to find that match, that good match.

[Raj Grewal, Liberal, Brampton East, ON]

Yes. The Dairy Farmers of New Brunswick, and the Agricultural Alliance, and anybody in that sector always talk about the family inheritance tax when a son or daughter is purchasing a farm. One of the suggestions I had for anybody was to give us the numbers on the impact on treasury. How much is it going to cost the government to change that tax policy? It's a suggestion, because that will really help us grasp the cost of the policy. Saying at a macro level that this policy is unfair is one thing, but the government and all businesses work on dollars and cents. That's just a suggestion.

On licences for fishermen, they're controlled by the federal crown, from my understanding. Are new ones issued every year? Or are they just a secondary market that's been established, and they sell on a private market? Is that what's happening?

[Christian Brun]

This is a limited entry industry. It's mostly because you need a specific type of knowledge to be able to get into this industry. We basically realized 15 or 20 years ago, especially for security reasons, that you want to be careful about the experience you need to have to be on the water. That's one of the reasons.

It's also a sustainability question.

[Raj Grewal, Liberal, Brampton East, ON]

Are the licences transferable upon death or do they go back to...?

[Christian Brun]

They're basically going back to the state. The state transferred the licences to them. This is a common resource. It's very important for us, and that's why this policy is extremely important. This is not a private industry, this is a common resource, which, basically, harvesters set out to generate the most that we can from.

[Raj Grewal, Liberal, Brampton East, ON]

I need another 30 seconds, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Okay

[Raj Grewal, Liberal, Brampton East, ON]

I'd like to thank Mr. Chair for his leniency.

To the Chamber of Commerce, you mentioned the tax rate, and that's a debate that will go on in the House of Commons. On compliance with the Tax Act and dealing with CRA, your point is duly noted. I think colleagues across the board understand the frustrations that everybody has dealing with the CRA, especially even at a constituency level when we deal with people who come into our office. So that's something we're working on. This committee has studied it, and we will continue to put pressure on the CRA and the Ministry of National Revenue to make sure that tax is simple, understandable, accountable, and transparent.

Thank you so much for all your testimony.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Thank you, Mr. Grewal.

With that I'd like to thank each and every witness for their presentation and response to questions.

With that, we'll suspend for 10 minutes and go to the next panel.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

We'll reconvene and thank you to all the witnesses for coming.

As you know, the finance committee is on the road in eastern Canada this week. We're doing pre-budget consultations in advance of the 2017 budget. We'd appreciate it if people could hold their opening remarks to about five minutes, so that we get more time for questions. While we're on the road, we ask, as a benefit to the witnesses, for members to introduce themselves and say where they're from.

I'm Wayne Easter. I'm a member of Parliament from Malpeque, Prince Edward Island.

[Raj Grewal, Liberal, Brampton East, ON]

I'm Raj Grewal, the member of Parliament from Brampton East, just outside of Toronto.

[Steven MacKinnon, Liberal, Gatineau, QC]

I'm Steve MacKinnon, the MP for Gatineau, just across the river in Quebec.