Finance Committee on Oct. 18th, 2016

[Steven MacKinnon, Liberal, Gatineau, QC]

I take it from your last answer that you do see that as an appropriate shift and you'll be devising solutions appropriate to the circumstances of Prince Edward Island.

[Allen F. Roach]

I think I mentioned during my presentation that we're looking at an energy strategy. I can't discuss that strategy right at this point, but a big piece of the strategy is energy conservation and looking towards what we will do to reduce our carbon emissions.

[Steven MacKinnon, Liberal, Gatineau, QC]

Thank you very much, Minister.

Perhaps I'll shift to you, Mr. Pearson. You've identified incentives for job creation, which I'm sure is music to the minister's ears and to the ears of most people on the panel today. You described some of the programming that may or may not expire and which we ought to consider recommending extending. Can you give us some real-life examples, perhaps in your business or businesses that you're aware of, where those kinds of initiatives have made a difference?

[Michael Pearson]

Certainly. Thanks for the question.

As a business in multiple jurisdictions, provinces, and countries, we have a choice about where we hire people. Obviously there are a lot of factors that go into that. One of them is the cost of salaries, wages, taxes, and things like EI premiums, which go into the cost of business. These things can make a significant difference.

Not only is Prince Edward Island a great place to live and do business, but we also received incentives through the minister's previous portfolio, I believe, and it did make a difference in terms of our decision where to locate our operations, hire people, and create jobs.

These incentives are not necessarily the.... You have to have a sustainable business in the long term, with or without incentives, but they do make an initial impact on your decision as to where, how fast, and how many.... Although our business here in P.E.I. is very sustainable and profitable, the fact that the province was willing to make an investment in helping us to grow and create those jobs made a big difference.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Okay. I'll cut you off there.

Mr. Albas, go ahead.

[Dan Albas, Conservative, Central Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I thank everyone for their presentations today.

Minister Roach, thank you for your commitment to your province and also to our country.

I'd like to ask a few questions in regard to federal funding transfers in particular. You said that the current framework by the federal government in regard to health care is not helpful to your province. There are no strings attached to the current funding that you've been receiving. Is that correct?

[Allen F. Roach]

That's correct.

[Dan Albas, Conservative, Central Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola, BC]

Okay. It seems to me that right now there is a discussion.... You mentioned a conversation, a telephone call you had with your colleagues across the country, in regard to health care. You are not in favour of seeing dedicated funding in certain areas where the federal government might say that it's going to invest in things like mental health or different specialized services.

Is the best way to do it where the government says that it's going to attach some strings to this money? Or would you prefer that it remain as it has been under the Canada Health Act, where the transfers are non-conditional?

[Allen F. Roach]

The health minister is not in the room, but I don't believe there has been enough of that discussion to date for me to accurately answer that question.

I certainly agree with what the federal government is proposing, which is that specific funding go into specific areas. I don't have an issue with that. I think we need to have a lot more discussion about how much that is going to be for the provinces, and we need to look at the other pressures that come every year, with regard to salary increases, increases in technology, and those sorts of things. It's too early, I believe, to ask the finance ministers that question without having a deep dive into the three areas that you spoke of.

I hope that answers your question.

[Dan Albas, Conservative, Central Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola, BC]

I appreciate your perspective.

In regard to the carbon tax, the government has contended that it will be revenue neutral. Obviously, it won't be revenue neutral to the people who pay it, because they are going to see the price at the pump or on the price of produce and whatnot going up. However, the government has said that they are going to return those monies to the provinces.

Have you been given any indication that there will be any strings attached—for example, where they say part of it has to go towards clean technology, or part of it has to go to low-income people—or are they leaving you total discretion?

[Allen F. Roach]

We haven't heard anything on that yet.

[Dan Albas, Conservative, Central Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola, BC]

They've made this announcement and they haven't even considered letting you know that those are the terms under which they're going to impose this tax?

[Allen F. Roach]

We're still in those discussions, and we'll negotiate that.

[Dan Albas, Conservative, Central Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola, BC]

Okay. It's just interesting that on certain things they're saying that they want to see more involvement of the federal government in telling provinces how to operate in areas of their jurisdiction, yet they're offering what in some cases seems to be no strings attached.

From what you said earlier, the fact that there are no large emitters rules out a cap-and-trade system for Prince Edward Island.

[Allen F. Roach]

That's correct.

[Dan Albas, Conservative, Central Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola, BC]

Are you planning on instituting a carbon tax so that you can have more control over how it's implemented, or are you simply going to let the federal government continue and impose that tax on your constituents?

[Allen F. Roach]

We will be controlling it.

[Dan Albas, Conservative, Central Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola, BC]

Okay. You're going to introduce a carbon tax or...?

[Allen F. Roach]

That's the only way we have any control.

[Dan Albas, Conservative, Central Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola, BC]

All right. That's interesting, because the question in my mind, which I still haven't received any answers on, is that obviously the federal government cannot tax a provincial tax, as we see sometimes happening at the pump with a tax on a tax.

Again, that's protecting your consumers, I guess, by having it provincially controlled.

How much time do I have, Mr. Chair? A minute? Okay. I'm just going to go quickly to the Cooper Institute.

I represent an area in the Similkameen where there is a group of citizens who have been raising a variety of different concerns. One that they have asked me to look into is around the collection of CPP and EI for people who are participating in the seasonal agriculture worker program. Often they're from Jamaica, or Mexico, or India, and they are asked to put money into those programs, and of course they don't receive that back. Have you been given any indication as to why that practice occurs?

[Josie Baker]

The focus of the movement across Canada around migrant worker rights is really to secure status for these workers that would entitle them to those programs. My understanding of the reason why this is done is the way the temporary foreign worker program was implemented. When they come in, they are theoretically under the same conditions as Canadian workers. There are various reasons why that doesn't play out, but that was one of the reasons. The reason they cannot collect EI in that case is that they're out of the country, and it's the same thing for CPP.

[Dan Albas, Conservative, Central Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola, BC]

If someone pays into the system and their country has a social security agreement with Canada, then there can be some benefits, but maybe this is something for another discussion. That's an area I'm interested in. I appreciate it.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

You have time for one more, Dan, if you want.

[Dan Albas, Conservative, Central Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola, BC]

You know what, Mr. Chair? I don't want to dominate the conversation.

Thank you again to all of our witnesses.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Mr. Dusseault.