Finance Committee on Nov. 2nd, 2016

[Gérard Deltell, Conservative, Louis-Saint-Laurent, QC]

Mr. Chair, Canadians can see that, despite several attempts on my part to get that information, the Minister of Finance has absolutely no idea who could tell us when to expect a return to balanced budgets.

Yet, just before the election, this party promised a return to balanced budgets within three years, which will not be the case.

How do you feel about having betrayed the public's trust on this issue?

[Bill Morneau, Liberal, Toronto Centre, ON]

Canadians wants a better situation than the one they have now. Luckily, they understand that the investments in infrastructure we are making now and in the future are very important. That is our plan to improve our situation.

At the same time, we can be sure that families will be in a better situation thanks to the changes that we have made, especially the tax cuts and the Canada Child Benefit. This is a plan that will work for the middle class and for Canadian families all across the country.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Thank you both.

Go ahead, Mr. Caron.

[Guy Caron, NDP, Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC]

Thank you very much.

Minister and deputy minister, welcome.

I'll start in English. I asked you a question yesterday in the House about where in the Liberal program the commitment was to actually either privatize public assets, privatize the flow of revenue streams of those public assets, or reinvest in infrastructure through tolls and user fees.

Before you answer, I'd like to review what Paul Wells actually wrote today in the Toronto Star:

The money, if it comes, will help pay for very large infrastructure projects from which investors will expect to generate enough returns to justify their investments.... What sort of returns? Whatever the ingenuity of developers can concoct. Hydro rates and water meter rates, if that's what's getting built. Real estate development along routes rendered more attractive because the roads and rails will be getting a boost. And, yes, road tolls, like on Hwy. 407....

I'd like to understand where in the Liberal platform was the commitment to privatize the assets or the revenue streams or to impose user fees or tolls, because that's what's called a return on investment. Why was it not mentioned during the campaign?

Canadians voted for small deficits to invest in public infrastructure, and right now they're getting larger deficits to pay for the privatization of what they have paid for all these years.

[Bill Morneau, Liberal, Toronto Centre, ON]

Thank you for the question. It does allow me to amplify a bit on the remarks that I can make in the House of Commons.

Canadians made a choice that I think was a positive, confident choice a year ago. They decided that rather than focusing on balanced budgets, they would elect a government that was going to make investments in the future of our country. We were quite clear during the course of our election campaign that we expected we would be making significant infrastructure investments. The goal of those investments was also clearly enunciated. We wanted to ensure that we could provide long-term good-paying jobs through those infrastructure investments, and a more productive economy over the long term.

[Guy Caron, NDP, Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC]

Minister, this isn't answering the question. I do have—

[Bill Morneau, Liberal, Toronto Centre, ON]

I am getting to the answer.

[Guy Caron, NDP, Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC]

I have a very short time. I have five minutes, and I asked you a question: Where was it in the Liberal platform—

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

He has time equivalent to the question, so he does have about 30 seconds left to finish his answer.

[Bill Morneau, Liberal, Toronto Centre, ON]

What we did was lay out a program of infrastructure investment, and we've said that the way we can do even more, the way we can transform our economy and our infrastructure in a better way, is by finding a way, for those projects that make sense, to invite pension funds and institutional investors to be part of that investment. We know that will have a bigger, more important impact on our country over the long term. It will be better for all of our children and the next generation, and that's what we intend on doing: finding those transformational projects that will make a real difference over time.

[Guy Caron, NDP, Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC]

You see, it's a question of language right now.

Let's have a reasonable discussion on the privatization of public assets. We are opposed. In general, the Conservatives are in favour. As for the Liberals, we did not know their position and it was not made clear, especially during the election campaign.

If the Liberals had been honest during the campaign and had said, “We can only reinvest in public infrastructure through tolls, through user fees, and through privatization of those assets”, then people might have chosen something different, but that's not what they heard. They heard that there will be deficits so that the government can invest and renew the infrastructure.

Minister, once again I'm asking you, where was there any mention of privatization, user fees, and tolls?

One more thing I notice is that since then we haven't really heard those words. We hear about “asset recycling”, or “asset revitalization”, or the new expression now, which is “a flywheel of institutional capital participation”. Every economist, everybody who is in the know, understands that those are buzzwords for privatization, for user fees, and for tolls, starting with Andrew Coyne and going with Mr. Steven Gordon, who was saying the same thing.

Once again, where was this commitment to privatize, to stream assets, or to impose tolls and fees?

[Bill Morneau, Liberal, Toronto Centre, ON]

I appreciate the question, and I can only reiterate that we made a commitment to making investments in infrastructure. We believe that's an important commitment for Canadians. We recognize that a way to get more done is through working together with partners, and to the extent that there are pension funds that seek to be involved in infrastructure funding, we can do more because we have access to outside capital that will create more Canadian jobs, and that will create better long-term infrastructure. That's positive, so we're going to seek ways to do that.

Capitalization of the Canada infrastructure bank is significant. It's $35 billion. We expect that we will be able to find projects on which we can work together, without the consideration of government assets. That's the situation we expect to move forward on, and what we will see over the course of the coming years is a significant opportunity for us to have a more important impact on our economy, more jobs for Canadians, and in the long term, a better situation for our infrastructure.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Thank you both.

Mr. Sorbara is next.

[Francesco Sorbara, Liberal, Vaughan—Woodbridge, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Welcome this afternoon, Minister.

Our platform last year called for a number of investments in infrastructure. I like to look at it as a plan to invest in Canada and Canadians, to lay a foundation for sustained and more inclusive economic growth.

Frankly, it's a plan to create jobs and to make sure that there's a brighter future for my daughters, Eliana and Natalia, who are in kindergarten right now.

Minister, I would like to ask two questions.

The first is on the innovation hub. Our ability to compete in the world market is based on our ability to attract the best and the brightest, and I think the innovation hub goes a long way. It's a big first step. I would also like you to comment on our changes in terms of allowing foreigners, non-Canadians, to come work in our country on an easier basis.

I will do my second question in a package. Recently the Governor of the Bank of Canada, past governors, and past recent fed chairs all commented on the need to invest in infrastructure. Our plan, in my humble opinion, is a plan for the near term and, most importantly, a plan for the long term, something that was frankly lacking in the previous government.

Recently Mr. Poloz commented on our fiscal capacity, saying that we have a large degree of fiscal capacity to invest to create an infrastructure that allows for a higher sustained growth trajectory.

Those are my two questions, and I would like to hear your words.

Thank you.

[Bill Morneau, Liberal, Toronto Centre, ON]

I'll start by talking about the first part of your question in terms of the measures we're moving forward on.

We see that we have a very successful country, one with a very strong foundation, with an educated workforce, with a diversity that works in this country. We recognize that we are an attractive investment destination for companies from around the world.

We've seen success so far this year. We saw Thomson Reuters move their headquarters here. We saw General Motors, General Electric, and Microsoft make investments here this year.

We know we can do better. We know that the ability to go out and attract investment to Canada is critically important for creating Canadian jobs. We know that putting in place a systematic effort to ensure coordination at the federal, provincial, and municipal levels to ensure the biggest impact is critically important.

That's why we've decided to invest in an agency that will have an impact in this regard. We think it can have an important impact on jobs and on our economy here.

One of the other things that helps in that confidence for those firms as they think about coming here is the global skills strategy we have laid out. When we have gone out to talk to Canadian firms in the innovative sector and to international firms that are thinking about coming here, they have said that having the key talent is critically important for them. For them to have the one worker who brings a certain skill set that might help them to make more investments in Canada and create that many more jobs here can be critically important.

We've decided that we're going to help to make sure they can do that quickly with a guarantee that we can get workers here within 14 days. With regard to temporary stay workers who can make a difference in their efforts, they will be able to bring them in quickly for short stays. These are things that will make a real difference for businesses. These are critically important, and will help our economy to grow and create jobs.

The remarks of so many intervenors around the world on infrastructure are consistent with our plans. We know that especially in Canada, with the fiscal situation we have, we have the capacity to make those investments. That's why we've embarked on infrastructure spending. That's why Canadians decided that the plan around investment was much better than the other offer, which was around austerity. We know we have the capacity to make investments that can make a real difference. I think all of us will be pleased when we see a more productive economy down the road than what we have today.

[Francesco Sorbara, Liberal, Vaughan—Woodbridge, ON]

Thank you, Minister. Thank you, Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Go ahead, Mr. Albas.

[Dan Albas, Conservative, Central Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I appreciate your being here today, Mr. Minister.

First of all, you said some very kind remarks about the committee, particularly around pre-budget consultations. Thank you.

Do you take the recommendations from this committee quite seriously when you're putting together your budget?

[Bill Morneau, Liberal, Toronto Centre, ON]

I take the considerations from all sources seriously. We are very legitimately out to listen to Canadians. We know this committee is an important source of information in not only your own opinions, but the opinions that filter through you, so we are absolutely considering all Canadians' points of view.

[Dan Albas, Conservative, Central Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola, BC]

Okay. Just again, we are elected to be representatives of the people, so I hope that you would consider us not to be the same as any other equivalent stakeholder, because we've done a lot of work. We're legislated by the House to do that work for you, so I hope that you would take those recommendations seriously.

Do you think that parliamentarians can do a good job and present good cases that you can consider for your budget?

[Bill Morneau, Liberal, Toronto Centre, ON]

Again, I'll respond. I take very seriously my time here with this committee. I think it's important to hear the views of the members of this committee. I recognize that you get people to come here to present their views, so you're representing not only your own views but the views of people who come to present to you. I recognize that all of you go back to your constituencies, just as I do, and hear from people.

[Dan Albas, Conservative, Central Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola, BC]

Mr. Minister, if we do a report here, do you find that valuable or not, yes or no?

[Bill Morneau, Liberal, Toronto Centre, ON]

Again, my comments are going to continue to be the same. I'm going to respect the work of this committee. It's going to form an important part of our deliberations.

[Dan Albas, Conservative, Central Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola, BC]

I was hoping you would have just said “yes”, because that's showing respect for the people who elected us and also for the chamber that has given us this function.

I'm going to move on, though.

We had the president of Canada Pension Plan Investment Board the other day, and he said that they have all the tools they need already to invest in infrastructure in Canada. Why do you think you need an infrastructure bank?

[Bill Morneau, Liberal, Toronto Centre, ON]

Are you happy for me to take longer than one second of my response? It's a big question.