Finance Committee on Nov. 22nd, 2016

[Marshall Schnapp]

I didn't see anything in the new act that would change that. Unfortunately, I wasn't here to hear the comments. I'm not sure if there was anything specific. I would be more than happy to address it.

If anything, we see what was in the regulation now being codified in the law, so I don't see any change in that regard.

[Robert-Falcon Ouellette, Liberal, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

His comment was that essentially the banks get to choose their own ombudsman, meaning the control then rests with the bank over the ombudsman, and the potential is there for a level of conflict of interest.

[Marshall Schnapp]

I think with any independent body.... There are two different ombudspeople, and I think our work is pretty transparent. I think our methodology is pretty transparent. I guess part of the challenge is that there aren't that many service providers that are offering this.

In my experience as an ombudsman and investigator, I haven't had the experience where a bank was trying to unduly influence us, or also respects our rule. That's the model that's in place. I don't see it like that, but....

[Robert-Falcon Ouellette, Liberal, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

That's okay. I'm not criticizing.

[Marshall Schnapp]

No, of course.

[Robert-Falcon Ouellette, Liberal, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

I'm just asking a few questions.

I have just a little tiny follow-up. If you actually make a ruling against the bank, what enforcement does that have? How powerful is that in their relations with the public?

[Marshall Schnapp]

An ombudsman has the power of persuasion, has the power of public relations, as it were. We would post that. I think banks are very sensitive to the idea that they're publicly told that their decisions are wrong. Having said that, we can enforce a recommendation, in that if it's not followed through, we publish. We're also a dispute resolution tool. If a party gets a recommendation, and it's not followed, while we can't enforce it like a court, they have that information to take it to another body as they see fit to try to have it enforced.

[Robert-Falcon Ouellette, Liberal, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

You have no other questions? That's unusual.

[Robert-Falcon Ouellette, Liberal, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

It's incredible.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Okay, Mr. Liepert, you're away.

[Ron Liepert, Conservative, Calgary Signal Hill, AB]

Thank you.

Mr. Schnapp, I love short presentations, but I think in the time I've been here, yours was the shortest. I'd like to learn just a little bit more about you. I didn't know you existed; not you, as an individual, but your office.

If I understand your role, it is to resolve disputes between the customer and the bank.

[Marshall Schnapp]

Correct.

[Ron Liepert, Conservative, Calgary Signal Hill, AB]

How does the customer know about you?

[Marshall Schnapp]

The customer knows about us through the bank's complaint handling system. What all customers are advised is that if they have an issue at the bank, first they have to go to the person they were dealing with, and then the manager, customer care, and then finally the bank ombudsman. If the bank ombudsman doesn't resolve their complaint to their satisfaction, they're provided notice that there is an external complaint body. Whether it's us or OBSI, they're told who to go to and how they can access us. They can access us over the phone, or by email, letter. We also have a website, so we explain how our system works.

[Ron Liepert, Conservative, Calgary Signal Hill, AB]

What would be your most common kind of complaint or resolution?

[Marshall Schnapp]

Our most common resolution...?

[Ron Liepert, Conservative, Calgary Signal Hill, AB]

What would be the thing that you would handle the most? What kind of complaint?

[Marshall Schnapp]

Sure. There are different categories. One could be just customer service, so people are unhappy with how they were treated, or if they feel they were treated unfairly. We also deal a fair bit with mortgages. If people want to end their mortgage early, a lot of people aren't aware of termination penalties. We also have fraud issues. Sometimes people will have their card, be it their debit card, their visa card, and they believe that these are transactions they shouldn't be responsible for, and sometimes the bank says that they should. Those are some of the complaints.

[Ron Liepert, Conservative, Calgary Signal Hill, AB]

Good.

To the Canadian Medical Association, I'll spare my colleagues across the way my tirade about Liberal taxation policy, but I'd like to get a little bit more understanding of the current situation. We've certainly heard from the radiologists and understand that. My doctor is in a group of half a dozen doctors who practice in a clinic together. Can you tell me how are they currently taxed?

[Professor Richard Davies, Professor, Division of Cardiology, University of Ottawa Heart Institute, Canadian Medical Association]

Perhaps I can take that one. I'll speak to our group at the heart institute, and specifically academic groups.

First, we formed a legal partnership in 1976, and while it's a partnership, it wasn't to make money, really. What we did is we're supporting what we call the academic mission. Right now, we do a lot of research and we're actually becoming better and better recognized for that. We have the top-rated teaching program in the country. We get some of the best cardiology trainees in the country for that reason. We also do clinical care. Some of it is well paid; some of it is poorly paid.

For example, we recruited somebody who was described to me when we recruited her as the best cardiologist in Australia. She takes care of patients who are very sick. If you have a heart transplantation, she's the person who's going to be looking after you. That's very poorly remunerated. In order to be able to recruit excellent people like this, what we need to do is we need to be able to adjust. What we've done with our partnership is essentially we've been able to maintain excellence in all areas. There's research, which we fund almost all of. There's clinical care, and poorly funded things, which we essentially redistribute to so we can keep these excellent people, and there's teaching, which is completely unfunded. We spend our time doing this because we think it's important to have researchers and doctors for the future.

[Ron Liepert, Conservative, Calgary Signal Hill, AB]

Okay, so you're going to be impacted by this change?

[Prof. Richard Davies]

We're going to be impacted tremendously.

[Ron Liepert, Conservative, Calgary Signal Hill, AB]

Okay, but you are a teaching group.

[Prof. Richard Davies]

Yes.