Finance Committee on Nov. 23rd, 2016

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

We'll call the meeting to order.

Pursuant to the order of reference of Thursday, November 17, 2016, we're here to deal with Bill C-26, an act to amend the Canada Pension Plan, the Canada Pension Plan Investment Board Act and the Income Tax Act, in clause-by-clause consideration.

I would just mention a couple of things before we get to that. Officials are in the room. If there are any questions on any clause, officials are willing to come to the table and answer them.

We also have a written response from the Department of Finance on Bill C-26, which we asked for at a previous hearing. That is on your iPads. It just came in.

[The Clerk of the Committee, Ms. Suzie Cadieux]

No, not yet. It will be.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

It will be on your iPads.

It's about the impact of the CPP enhancement on GDP and employment, the impact of the CPP enhancement on retirement savings, and the impact of the CPP enhancements on business investment. If you don't use that for these purposes today, you might use it for your purposes in the House debate.

Before I turn to the bill, I believe Mr. MacKinnon has a notice of motion.

[Steven MacKinnon, Liberal, Gatineau, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Actually, I have a motion that I will be happy to read. But I think my committee colleagues would be happier if I didn't, unless they indicate otherwise.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Does anybody...? I see heads shaking.

[Ron Liepert, Conservative, Calgary Signal Hill, AB]

No.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

We don't need it read. It is a notice of motion, and it will be given 48 hours' notice before it's debated.

Dan, you had a question?

[Dan Albas, Conservative, Central Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola, BC]

I was just going to say that obviously this has been well thought out, and I do appreciate that it's written in both English and French as presented.

One of the things I'd like to see is that I believe on December 8 and 15—this is just so everyone has full notice and can consider it—we may perhaps want to look at Mr. May's private member's bill. I think it will probably take only two sessions as well. That's just to put it out there that we'd love to utilize our time here in Ottawa, particularly before the December break, to take a look at it. There was a lot of support for that measure in the House.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Okay. In any event, it's a notice of motion, and it will be scheduled in and debated at the first opportunity after 48 hours.

Turning to Bill C-26, I think everybody has been through this procedure before. There are only two amendments for the bill, which have been proposed by the NDP. One is on clause 22 and the other is on clause 24.

The procedure we can follow is to go clause by clause or, where there are no amendments, we could go from clause 1 to 21. How do you want to proceed? Do you want to go clause by clause or have them in a block?

Mr. Albas.

[Dan Albas, Conservative, Central Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola, BC]

Mr. Chair, to take a quick bit of time now so we don't have to do it later, first of all, I think we'll find support, at least from our mini-caucus on this side, to do this in chunks.

The Conservatives, as you know, are opposed to the legislation, so perhaps we could do a certain block on division unless a particular member has an interest that they would like to speak to. It's just that we believe in honouring everyone's time, particularly since we have so many people who probably have other duties that they can attend to besides this.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Okay. On clauses 1 to 21, are you okay with that block?

[Ron Liepert, Conservative, Calgary Signal Hill, AB]

Yes.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Shall clauses 1 to 21 carry?

(Clauses 1 to 21 inclusive agreed to on division)

(On clause 22)

Mr. Duvall.

[Scott Duvall, NDP, Hamilton Mountain, ON]

Thanks, Mr. Chair.

I'm assuming that everybody has the amendments? Okay.

Mr. Chair, what we found during the discussion at committee, when we had all the stakeholders and all the witnesses here, was that we noticed that some language was missing on the enhancement part, which had to do with the drop-out clauses that are in the base. We heard from many witnesses that this should be fixed. They weren't aware of it, so on the many times I've been speaking on it in the House I was saying to bring it to committee to see if we can get it changed here.

These amendments are absolutely critical. The language is very critical in making sure it's put in for the enhancements so that women and people with disabilities will not be penalized going forward on the enhancements. I'm encouraging this committee to accept the amendments and also to vote on them to make sure the bill is not flawed.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Okay. People do have copies of the amendment.

I have a ruling on this particular amendment, Mr. Duvall.

The amendment seeks to amend Bill C-26, an act to amend the Canada Pension Plan, the Canada Pension Plan Investment Board Act and the Income Tax Act. The amendment would result in an increase in the value of the benefit in question. Therefore, as House of Commons Procedure and Practice, Second Edition, states on pages 767 and 768:

Since an amendment may not infringe upon the financial initiative of the Crown, it is inadmissible if it imposes a charge on the public treasury, or if it extends the objects or purposes or relaxes the conditions and qualifications specified in the royal recommendation.

In the opinion of the chair, the amendment proposes to increase the value of the benefit, which could impose an additional charge on the public treasury, and therefore I must rule the amendment inadmissible.

That's the ruling.

[Scott Duvall, NDP, Hamilton Mountain, ON]

Mr. Chair, can I comment on that?

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

There's no further debate once that ruling is made. If you want to, you could no doubt challenge the chair.

[Scott Duvall, NDP, Hamilton Mountain, ON]

I don't want to challenge the chair, but since my amendment was ruled out of order, I would like to move the following motion—

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

We're on the amendment now. This one is ruled out of order. You can move a motion later.

[Scott Duvall, NDP, Hamilton Mountain, ON]

Okay.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Mr. Albas.

[Dan Albas, Conservative, Central Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola, BC]

Mr. Chair, with all due respect, I'd like us to have a question about that particular ruling, so I'll challenge the chair. Again, with respect, it's nothing personal at all.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

It's not a problem. It wouldn't be the first time the chair was challenged.

[Voices]

Oh, oh!

[Dan Albas, Conservative, Central Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola, BC]

Can I make my point?