Evidence of meeting #62 for Finance in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was clause.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Trevor McGowan  Acting Chief, Tax Legislation Division, Tax Policy Branch, Department of Finance
Glenn Campbell  Director, Financial Institutions, Financial Sector Policy Branch, Department of Finance
Jean-François Girard  Senior Project Leader, Financial Sector Policy Branch, Department of Finance
Eleanor Ryan  Senior Chief, Financial Institutions Division, Financial Sector Policy Branch, Department of Finance
Clerk of the Committee  Ms. Suzie Cadieux

6:35 p.m.

Conservative

Ron Liepert Conservative Calgary Signal Hill, AB

Then it's not 48 hours.

6:35 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Wayne Easter

I'm informed that because we're under committee business it can be brought forward now, and it is substantially different, in that it has a date and it is a motion, while the other is an amendment to a motion.

It is, then, on the floor. Is there any discussion?

6:35 p.m.

Liberal

Jennifer O'Connell Liberal Pickering—Uxbridge, ON

Mr. Chair, I'd like a recorded—

6:35 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Wayne Easter

Mr. Caron.

6:35 p.m.

NDP

Guy Caron NDP Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC

I didn't attend the committee meeting where the discussion took place regarding the motion submitted initially by my colleague, Scott Duvall. This motion wasn't approved by the committee. I want to know how Ms. O'Connell's words are different and how they would lead us to vote for her motion as opposed to Mr. Duvall's motion, which wasn't adopted.

6:35 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Wayne Easter

Let me explain, Mr. Caron.

There was a motion by Mr. Duvall, an amendment to Mr. Duvall's motion was put forward, and the meeting adjourned. The chair may not have been quite correct in adjourning that meeting, but I did, and that's done, so I'm told. We thus never finished the debate on the amendment to Mr. Duvall's motion or on his motion.

That amendment contained no dates. The motion that is being put forward by Ms. O'Connell now is different, in that it has a deadline in it and isn't an amendment to a motion.

Go ahead, Mr. Caron.

6:40 p.m.

NDP

Guy Caron NDP Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC

I question the relevance of studying this motion when we haven't finished discussing or ruling on the other motion. I also think the motion doesn't mean much since it repeats what we hear during the question period.

The federal government and the provinces meet to discuss the enhancement of the Canada pension plan. I've already seen these meetings. In fact, I've already attended these meetings, not necessarily from the inside, but at least from the outside. Details such as the issue of child-rearing and disability dropout provisions are not discussed at these meetings. A general agreement is reached on the key principles specifically.

One thing is clear in this case. When drafting Bill C-26, the government made an error that excluded these elements. There's no need to bring this matter to a federal-provincial meeting. Instead of discussing this motion, I want us to finish dealing with the motion submitted, and even amended, by my colleague, Scott Duvall. Otherwise, I would consider this matter more a political game than anything else.

6:40 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Wayne Easter

I can only deal with what is on the floor, and this motion is on the floor.

Mr. Ouellette is next, and then Ms. O'Connell.

6:40 p.m.

Liberal

Robert-Falcon Ouellette Liberal Winnipeg Centre, MB

I think this motion is excellent. It will place a bit more pressure on our Minister of Finance and the other ministers of finance, who are our partners when it comes to the Canada pension plan, or CPP.

When I spoke with public servants from the Department of Finance, I understood that there must be an agreement. A change must be made and the change must be approved by the majority of finance ministers because it's a new type of plan. It's an enhancement of the CPP.

For me, it's extremely important to protect women and ensure equality. I know you recognize this as well. I greatly appreciate your party's contribution to the House of Commons. I think many others also appreciate it.

This doesn't take away anything from what you did. However, this motion will certainly proceed more quickly. Ultimately, I don't want the Minister of Finance to leave next week without the matter having been dealt with by the committee.

It's very important that this subject matter be treated as soon as possible. At the end of the day, I don't want the finance minister ending up in this meeting with the other finance ministers and not having a certain level, not only on ourselves as a government, but also on all our partners in the provinces, to ensure that all of them know that this is important, that it was talked about in Parliament, that there is a motion on the floor, that the Liberal Party, the NDP, and hopefully the Conservatives, are all behind this idea of equality for women and for people with disabilities. This is a change that we'd like to see, and done in a good way.

I'm very supportive of this, and I appreciate Ms. O'Connell and her hard work in trying to get this together.

November 28th, 2016 / 6:40 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Wayne Easter

Mr. Albas.

6:40 p.m.

Conservative

Dan Albas Conservative Central Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola, BC

Mr. Chair, we've been very supportive of the NDP for raising their views and not having debates shut down as it was in previous times. That being said, this particular motion is exactly the same motion they put forward to try to steal the thunder of the NDP. They raised an issue they thought had resonance. This is more a fight between the Liberals and the New Democrats to show who cares the most about these kinds of issues. We've already made our comments very clear on Bill C-26. We're just going to step out and let the Liberals and NDP deal with one another on this matter.

6:45 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Wayne Easter

Thank you, Mr. Albas.

Mr. Caron, you're next.

6:45 p.m.

NDP

Guy Caron NDP Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC

I'll try in English so maybe the message will carry this time.

There is no way with respect to the federal-provincial negotiations which took place, where there was an agreement to increase the CPP, that the provinces and the federal government agreed to drop the issues regarding the child rearing and disability provisions. There's no way that was negotiated. It didn't come. The only reason this is a problem right now is that it's been dropped during the drafting of the federal legislation.

It means the provinces have nothing to say about this. I'm fairly sure the provinces and territories signed the agreement with the understanding that those provisions will still be there. There is no need to wait until the federal-provincial meeting to address this question, unless you can tell me that when it was signed, when there was that big ceremony, both federal and provincial governments agreed to drop those provisions. I don't believe that was the case.

6:45 p.m.

Conservative

Ron Liepert Conservative Calgary Signal Hill, AB

That was sloppy on their part.

6:45 p.m.

NDP

Guy Caron NDP Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC

Yes. That means it doesn't require going back and having the approval of the provinces.

6:45 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Wayne Easter

Okay, you've made your point.

Is there any further discussion on this motion?

Mr. Caron.

6:45 p.m.

NDP

Guy Caron NDP Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC

I request a recorded division, Mr. Chair.

6:45 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Wayne Easter

Okay, we'll have a recorded vote.

(Motion agreed to [See Minutes of Proceedings])

Mr. Caron.

6:45 p.m.

NDP

Guy Caron NDP Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC

Will it still be useful for the committee to study Mr. Duvall's motion?

6:45 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Wayne Easter

Yes, it will, and if you want to pull it up, you can pull it up.

6:45 p.m.

NDP

Guy Caron NDP Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC

I'll leave it to Mr. Duvall to do so at the next meeting.

6:45 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Wayne Easter

Okay, at the next opportunity when he's here.

The deadline for recommendations for the pre-budget consultation is tomorrow at 3:30. We need an indication of how many recommendations are coming forward. I'm told it takes a day to translate 2,000 words. How many words? Do we have any idea what's coming forward from the parties because we're going to run into a time crunch on translation.

Mr. Caron.

6:45 p.m.

NDP

Guy Caron NDP Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC

I'm being told that at this point—and that's probably where it will it end—we have about a page and a half.

6:45 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Wayne Easter

You have a page and a half of recommendations?

6:45 p.m.

NDP

Guy Caron NDP Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC

Yes.