Finance Committee on Dec. 5th, 2016

Evidence of meeting #64 for Finance in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was agreement.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

Subject Matter of Bill S-4, An Act to implement a Convention and an Arrangement for the avoidance of double taxation and the prevention of fiscal evasion with respect to taxes on income and to amend an Act in respect of a similar Agreement

Committee Business

MPs speaking

Wayne Easter

Robert-Falcon Ouellette

Steven MacKinnon

Gérard Deltell

François-Philippe Champagne

Also speaking

Clerk of the Committee Ms. Suzie Cadieux

Brian Ernewein General Director, Tax Policy Branch, Department of Finance

Stephanie Smith Senior Chief, Tax Legislation Division, Tax Policy Branch, Department of Finance

Luisa Rebolledo Chief Asia Representative, Export Development Canada

Gordon Houlden Director, China Institute, University of Alberta

Brigitte Alepin Tax Expert, Agora Fiscalité, As an Individual

Sarah Taylor Director General, North Asia and Oceania, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development

John Weston International Lawyer, McMillan LLP

6 p.m.

Director, China Institute, University of Alberta

Prof. Gordon Houlden

It's a good question. I would also suggest that Sarah might reply to this as well.

I can't see how that could be given practical effect, given that there's a de facto government of Taiwan, which regulates affairs of its citizens and of its people and of its commerce, whereas the Government of Beijing, where it claims to be the government of all China, and we've accepted that in our one China policy, has no practical means by which to manage the affairs of Taiwan. So people may feel that it is the responsibility of China in some fashion...that they're subject to an agreement with China automatically makes Taiwan susceptible, but in practical terms there would be no way to give force or motion to that sentiment.

6 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Wayne Easter

Sarah.

6 p.m.

Director General, North Asia and Oceania, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development

Sarah Taylor

If someone from Taiwan comes to Canada and claims that the accord with China apples to him, would we agree?

I don't know. We would perhaps have to ask a lawyer since this pertains to Canada's tax regime.

I can say, however—to repeat some of what Mr. Houlden said earlier—that the government of the People's Republic of China has no control over Taiwan. So if we go to Taiwan and say that we want to apply an accord that we have already signed with China, the Taiwanese authorities would say that it is out of the question.

As a result, if we want to remove the tax burden applicable to Canadians who do business in Taiwan, we have to conclude an accord with the Taiwanese authorities. Similarly, Taiwanese people who travel to Canada arrive at our borders with a Taiwanese passport and not a passport of the People's Republic of China. This is a question of both the facts and the law.

6 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Wayne Easter

Thank you.

Thank you to the witnesses for appearing.

To committee members, we had scheduled tomorrow's hearing for additional witnesses, but those witnesses are unable to appear tomorrow, so this will conclude the witnesses on Bill S-4.

Are people in agreement to do a review of the pre-budget consultations tomorrow? I don't think it will take two hours. We can get that off our deck and with some thoughts on how we might handle pre-budget consultations another year.

Ron.

6 p.m.

Conservative

Ron Liepert Conservative Calgary Signal Hill, AB

I am in agreement provided Mr. Caron is available.

6 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Wayne Easter

Is Guy Caron available tomorrow, do you think, Pierre?

December 5th, 2016 / 6 p.m.

NDP

Pierre-Luc Dusseault NDP Sherbrooke, QC

I think so. I was supposed to come for him, but I guess he's....

6 p.m.

Conservative

Ron Liepert Conservative Calgary Signal Hill, AB

With all due respect to Mr. Dusseault, I think if we're going to talk about our pre-budget consultations, we should have the committee members, representing the three parties, who've been involved in it.