Evidence of meeting #8 for Finance in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was support.
A video is available from Parliament.
3:05 p.m.
Liberal
Steven MacKinnon Liberal Gatineau, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
I thank the witnesses for their testimony. Their presentations were very stimulating.
My first question is addressed to the U15 representative, and concerns research.
Can you give us a brief overview of the history of research over the past 20 to 25 years, in terms of the funding of granting agencies that provide funds for research, and of the evolution that led to the creation of U15? What do you feel would be the impact of increased investment in primary research?
3:05 p.m.
Chair, U15 Group of Canadian Research Universities
Thank you.
U15 has been in existence for the past three years. In its first incarnation, it was was G10. Ten research-intensive universities in Canada came together because we had very special objectives and needs, but also a role to play—which is partially an answer to various questions that were raised around me today—to educate the talent at our universities in a very research-rich environment. That combination will address many social, scientific, and economic questions that will be the cornerstone of future economies. With that, this group started growing, and finally it became 15 universities from all parts of Canada. We formed a formal secretariat for this group and called it U15. Fifteen research-intensive universities came about.
The reason we believe that U15 universities have a special mandate is that research has to be curiosity-based. Out of that curiosity there are a number of fantastic results that we can achieve. What has to be done, with no pressures from any side, is to let it find its natural way to make sure that it goes into society in its various forms and shapes.
For that, the three granting councils—NSERC for science and engineering, SSHRC for the social sciences and the humanities, and CIHR for health research—provide the funds that every U15 researcher absolutely depends upon. Those funds enable our researchers to go into whatever research they're involved in, to conduct that research, and to recruit absolutely the top brilliant minds as graduate students to work with them.
It's linked to various things we talk about here. In the future of our economy, are we going to grow our own knowledge in this country, which our manufacturing industry, our health care, and various other sectors will be dependent upon, so that it will be Canadian-grown know-how and intellectual property, or are we going to rely upon other countries to create that intellectual property, which we will bring here and produce in our reduced role as an assembly-line process?
We want to be able to say that Canada is a global leader in the creation of intellectual property because we are investing in the research enterprise. Without our granting councils, I don't think I would be here talking to you or that any of our researchers would have accomplished what they have so far accomplished.
3:10 p.m.
Liberal
Steven MacKinnon Liberal Gatineau, QC
What is the history of government investment over the past 20 years? What is the situation today? Concretely, can you tell us precisely what you are asking for?
3:10 p.m.
Chair, U15 Group of Canadian Research Universities
Well, there have been investments made through various channels, and the tri-councils have received funding, but unfortunately that funding hasn't kept up with inflation. As a result, if you compare today's funding with 2007's, we are under by $176 million.
Our request is very clear: please, over the next four years, correct this situation and keep growing this funding, because it is an investment that will pay back many times over if we are able to make it.
3:10 p.m.
Liberal
Steven MacKinnon Liberal Gatineau, QC
Mr. Dias, do your members tend to work for profitable companies?
3:10 p.m.
Liberal
3:10 p.m.
National President, Unifor
Oh, absolutely. We represent workers at Suncor, Bombardier, Ford, General Motors, Chrysler—I can start to walk through the list—Air Canada....
3:10 p.m.
Liberal
Steven MacKinnon Liberal Gatineau, QC
I just thought that list might be informative for Mr. Liepert as well.
3:10 p.m.
Liberal
Steven MacKinnon Liberal Gatineau, QC
Currently, in the media, in Parliament and elsewhere, there is a debate about the possibility and appropriateness of public investment in Bombardier. You have in the past analyzed the aeronautics sector. You have spoken about it publicly, but could you talk to us about this in more detail? You only touched on the subject briefly. What is your perception of that company's situation, as well as of the foreign competition it faces? How important is an investment in the aeronautics sector for your members, and what would its impact be?
3:10 p.m.
National President, Unifor
Certainly.
About 20 years ago, Canada was number four in the world aerospace industry. Today we sit in about 12th place. That's what happens when you take your eye off the ball.
The fact is that Bombardier employs about 17,000 direct employees. The current situation is not unusual. The fact that the C series is delayed two years is not unusual. Boeing's Dreamliner was delayed for over two years because of electrical difficulties; Airbus's latest launch was delayed for over two years because of a whole host of issues related to the certification. When major employers invest billions of dollars and then it takes years to get a product to market, it's not unusual for them to face a cash crunch, and that's what they're faced with today.
The reality is that the C series is probably the most developed aircraft of its type in the world. Its competitors would be the A319 from Airbus and the 737 from Boeing. You'll find that the C series is 20% to 25% more fuel-efficient.
What you're facing here is a Canadian icon, and the real question is, are you in the game or not? If Canada wants to participate in the aerospace sector, then the government is going to have to play a leadership role, just as they do in Germany, just as they do in France, just as they do in Brazil, just as they do in China, and just as they do in the United States. You will find that all of these companies are successful because of the role of government, because the government understands that the payback is not just in personal taxes but in the payback that's created through the spinoff jobs created by the high-tech nature of the jobs.
3:15 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Wayne Easter
I'm going to stop you there. We have four people on the question list and we're going to try and get them all in. That will mean we'll go to three-minute questions.
Go ahead, Mr. Albas.
3:15 p.m.
Conservative
Dan Albas Conservative Central Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola, BC
Thank you.
Mr. Scholz, this just a quick question to you.
First of all, there's obviously more than one way of getting.... At least, what I've heard from people in your sector is that they'd like to see more opportunities to get their product to tidewater. Is that correct?
3:15 p.m.
President, Canadian Association of Oilwell Drilling Contractors
That's correct.
3:15 p.m.
Conservative
Dan Albas Conservative Central Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola, BC
Given that's the case, and given this whole discussion about social licence, there's more than one way to get your product to market, ones that don't require social licence. For example, I don't believe there are any requirements on trains or trucks. Is that correct?
3:15 p.m.
President, Canadian Association of Oilwell Drilling Contractors
I'm not an expert in that field, but that's certainly how it is being transported today.
3:15 p.m.
Conservative
Dan Albas Conservative Central Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola, BC
Okay. It seems to me that applying this new criterion to it really sends a signal to those people who want to use pipelines and who believe that they're the safest form. Taking longer is an extra impediment, and if the price goes up—and I certainly hope it does, because of many of the points you raised earlier—I believe they'll just switch to using other paths. Is that correct?
3:15 p.m.
President, Canadian Association of Oilwell Drilling Contractors
We have seen examples in which the lack of pipeline infrastructure has resulted in a significant increase in rail transportation, yes.
3:15 p.m.
Conservative
Dan Albas Conservative Central Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola, BC
Good. Now I imagine that to do what you do with all the drilling and what not, a huge number of geological scientists as well as other types of scientists are hired privately to help you do what you do. Is that correct?
3:15 p.m.
President, Canadian Association of Oilwell Drilling Contractors
Well, in the oil and gas service sector there are hundreds of companies that have differing expertise. It is a very segmented industry, from seismic to drilling to well servicing to wireline operating to transportation to vac-truck operators—the list goes on. It is largely a business that is run from a contracting perspective; there is not a lot of equipment or expertise that is housed in a standard exploration and production company, an E and P company.
3:15 p.m.
Conservative
Dan Albas Conservative Central Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola, BC
I raise that, Mr. Chair, simply because there are both private scientists and public scientists, and I certainly appreciate that the revenue that many of your industries provide to governments, provincially as well as federally, allows them to supply more science activities because they have the revenues for it.
In the same way, for example, in West Kelowna where I'm from, we have people who are unemployed right now who usually work in the oil and gas sector and are having, unfortunately, to make use of social supports as much as many of the witnesses we have had here today, so I appreciate what you do for your communities.
Just jumping over to that point, I also have noticed that with WestJet, Mr. Gibbons, there have been a lot of changes in your flight schedules. Is it because the oil and gas sector is down?
3:15 p.m.
Director, Government Relations and Regulatory Affairs, WestJet Airlines Ltd.
We have seen a softening of demand in western Canada; that is true, yes.
3:15 p.m.
Conservative
Dan Albas Conservative Central Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola, BC
Therefore, if fewer people are taking trips, whether it's because they worked in the oil and gas sector or because they just don't have money in their pockets because the small businesses they work at aren't being frequented by many of the people employed by oil and gas, the problem is that they can't buy cars as well. I think this is a case in which you can quickly see how we all seem to suffer when we don't have a good economy.
Now, I'd like to move to Mr. Dias just briefly.