Evidence of meeting #86 for Finance in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was health.
A video is available from Parliament.
Director General, Program Coordination Branch, Innovation, Science and Economic Development Canada
Thank you for that clarification.
I will just mention that this is clearly a priority for the government. A government can sometimes use legislation to outline some of the measures it wants to focus on. There are also implications for the process, which can be faster if the measure is included in a bill. This allows us to reach an agreement with the recipient, which is the Canadian Institute for Advanced Research. There are a number of reasons for using tools like this to put forward a measure.
NDP
Pierre-Luc Dusseault NDP Sherbrooke, QC
So the main objective would be to increase the measure's profile.
Director General, Program Coordination Branch, Innovation, Science and Economic Development Canada
It could be, yes.
NDP
Pierre-Luc Dusseault NDP Sherbrooke, QC
In any case, I will reserve my comments for the minister. However, it seems to me that if we wanted to increase the profile of a measure and ensure that the recipients receive the money, it would be done more quickly if the measure were included in the main estimates.
Liberal
Jennifer O'Connell Liberal Pickering—Uxbridge, ON
Thank you.
How will this strategy retain and attract the top academic talent, and how does it differ from other initiatives to attract top talent, especially in AI? Could you elaborate a little more on that?
Director General, Program Coordination Branch, Innovation, Science and Economic Development Canada
There are a number of measures the federal government has taken in the past. There are programs, for example, run by granting councils that support talent, including the Canada research chairs.
What's a bit special about this type of funding is that it is specifically for the purpose of promoting talent development in AI. A fairly large portion of the funding will go to support research chairs. Funding is to support the recruitment of research chairs from outside Canada and for use in retaining top-quality researchers in Canada so they remain here and continue to have the ability to do their research.
Liberal
Jennifer O'Connell Liberal Pickering—Uxbridge, ON
I have a follow-up question. Will the research or the attraction of the talent also deal with policy on AI and not just the technologies? The Council of Europe has a specific AI conversation, and it was astonishing to see the policy fears of some members and some states.
As technology changes, we're going to need policy expertise and experts looking at policies around the world. Will that be a feature of this, or is this strictly on the development of technologies and research?
Director General, Program Coordination Branch, Innovation, Science and Economic Development Canada
Certainly, this has sometimes been thought to be a very disruptive technology, with potentially disruptive effects on society and implications for policy. Indeed, some of the funding being provided to CIFAR will be used to support research into the ethical, legal, and public policy considerations associated with artificial intelligence.
Liberal
Greg Fergus Liberal Hull—Aylmer, QC
Thank you very much for being here.
I am very pleased that the government has invested that amount. Given that it's a one-time amount, do you plan to seek more funding after 2018 so that you can continue the work associated with this initiative?
Director General, Program Coordination Branch, Innovation, Science and Economic Development Canada
We anticipate that this investment—which is high, it's true—will allow us to continue our work for five years. As I mentioned earlier, there are other funding tools to support research. The future will tell us to what extent we should seek additional funding and if it is necessary.
Liberal
Greg Fergus Liberal Hull—Aylmer, QC
Do you think your situation will be similar to that of the Canada Foundation for Innovation, for example?
The foundation was established 20 years ago and received a one-time investment, but it soon became clear that, in order to maintain the value of this investment, periodic and continuous investments would be needed. I imagine it is the same with this initiative on artificial intelligence. Is that right?
Director General, Program Coordination Branch, Innovation, Science and Economic Development Canada
It's difficult to predict the future, but I think the current investment will probably prove to be adequate.
Liberal
Liberal
Robert-Falcon Ouellette Liberal Winnipeg Centre, MB
Thank you.
I'm interested in CIFAR. They have 404 researchers in 16 countries. Do you know what some of the requirements will be for CIFAR, the Canadian Institute for Advanced Research, for that funding? At the end of the day, if I look at some of their things, they could fund people outside of the country.
Director General, Program Coordination Branch, Innovation, Science and Economic Development Canada
CIFAR receives funds from the federal government to support research networks. Generally they fund Canadian researchers to participate in international networks, so some of the funding is received by researchers outside of Canada. It's very excellence focused. That's their normal program of research.
The investment in artificial intelligence is a separate agreement with CIFAR. We have put in place a number of quite specific requirements in terms of how that funding is spent.
I just want to make sure that I'm accurate, but I believe that all of the funds will be spent in Canada by Canadian institutions, to my knowledge.
Liberal
Robert-Falcon Ouellette Liberal Winnipeg Centre, MB
What's the difference between CIFAR and the tri-councils? Could you give us a bit of rationale for the difference between the two and why one is perhaps more flexible or less flexible than the other?
Director General, Program Coordination Branch, Innovation, Science and Economic Development Canada
They would say they have complementary purposes. The tri-councils have large budgets, or relatively large budgets. The three councils together fund about $3 billion a year of research, of talent development, scholarships, and transitional support, whereas CIFAR's budget—the federal government provides it—is about $5 million a year. In the last budget, it was proposed that it be increased to $7 million a year. That would represent about a third to a quarter of its total support. It has funding from other levels of government as well as the private sector.
CIFAR's work is very elite focused. The councils tend to focus on a range of researchers—all excellence based, but emerging researchers and a different tool kit. CIFAR's research tends to be in support of highly elite research. It's about getting Canadians to participate in international research networks at a very high level. It's about raising the game for top Canadian researchers, but also contributing to knowledge that will benefit Canadians and, in fact, the world.
It's just a slightly different set of activities.
Liberal
Robert-Falcon Ouellette Liberal Winnipeg Centre, MB
I have one short final question. We provide $125 million to CIFAR. Who owns the property rights to the knowledge that is produced? Is it public or is it private?
Director General, Program Coordination Branch, Innovation, Science and Economic Development Canada
It's actually a complicated question. We have given CIFAR the requirement to develop an intellectual property policy in consultation with the nodes and institutions that will be recipients of this federal funding.
As you may be aware, institutions across the country have their own individual IP policies. There's actually evidence to support many different types of strategies. It's also notable that, in terms of what the research tells us about intellectual property policies, often they would differ by sector or industry, and that, depending on the stage of the research, whether it's very early stage or late stage, different types of intellectual property protection makes sense.
It's actually a fairly complicated task that we've given to CIFAR to work out an intellectual property policy that will be optimal for managing this large sum of money.
Liberal
Robert-Falcon Ouellette Liberal Winnipeg Centre, MB
Potentially Canada could have property rights over some of the knowledge produced, the Canadian government or the Queen.
Director General, Program Coordination Branch, Innovation, Science and Economic Development Canada
In many cases it would be individual universities that house the researchers who are doing some of this work. That is, many universities have those kinds of policies. Most of those policies are designed to ultimately facilitate some form of commercialization. Usually there are mechanisms for that property to be transferred or licensed out and used.
Obviously, the government is very concerned about making sure that the benefits of this technology support Canadians. At the same time, I think there's interest in making sure that the research is advanced and not hampered by those kinds of policies.
