Evidence of meeting #89 for Finance in the 42nd Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was projects.
A video is available from Parliament.
Conservative
Dan Albas Conservative Central Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola, BC
I just disagree with that, and I hope the department has done the homework.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Wayne Easter
We'll give you a minute later to follow that line of thought.
Mr. Grewal.
Liberal
Raj Grewal Liberal Brampton East, ON
Minister, thank you for being here at committee.
Sometimes we get into the Ottawa bubble, but it's always nice to go back to the riding and talk to the people of Brampton East. When I get to meet them at events or I go door-knocking to talk to them, they're really impressed with what our government is doing, especially when it comes to investment, whether it's helping families through the child benefit, the middle-income tax cut, or our general narrative on tax fairness.
Something that resonated in my neck of the woods, especially as the proud son of a taxicab driver, was the recent change to the tax policy on the definition of “taxi” and how we're going to include ride-sharing services so that they will also have to pay GST and HST. Can I get your thoughts on why you think this is important for all Canadians?
Liberal
Bill Morneau Liberal Toronto Centre, ON
Raj, I want to say that you and a number of other members of Parliament were instrumental in bringing forward this idea. We know that tax fairness is critically important. In the area of ride-sharing services, we know it's important that people are looked at on an equal playing field. When we looked at this, we said that taxis that are sitting side by side an Uber driver should be subject to the same level of GST. Your advocacy made a difference. We've moved forward on this. We know that it will put us in a position where going forward, we can allow for new technologies, but it's going to be done on a fair basis only.
Liberal
Raj Grewal Liberal Brampton East, ON
Thank you, Minister.
On behalf of all taxi drivers and sons and daughters of taxi drivers, thank you very much for implementing that policy.
I'll move on. We came into power after 10 years of low economic growth and low job creation. Now, with our investments, we're seeing the unemployment rate declining. You mentioned earlier in your testimony that worker participation is going to increase by having more female participation in the workforce. At the same time, in this budget we also want to ensure that new Canadians who come to our country in search of the Canadian dream and have qualifications as engineers, lawyers, and doctors have an opportunity to practise their professions here in Canada.
We're making investments in foreign-credential recognition. Could you elaborate on how that's going to not only help those new immigrants settle in this country, but also, in terms of economic growth, how that can leverage their skills?
Liberal
Bill Morneau Liberal Toronto Centre, ON
We know this is really important.
We bring really talented people to our country. We want to make sure they have the ability to be successful here. So many people...and you mentioned taxi drivers. We find ourselves in a situation where people who have a high level of credentials are doing jobs that are significantly less demanding of their skills and talents than they should be.
We've said we should put money towards ensuring we help newcomers to be successful here. We've put $27.5 million in budget 2017 over five years in order to have a targeted strategy to help newcomers get themselves credentialed in Canada, to actually make the most of the real talent that comes to our country. We think this is critically important today, and important for the future, as we think about how we ensure that our workforce remains dynamic and successful. We're pleased to be making this initiative, and we think it's going to have a real impact.
Liberal
Raj Grewal Liberal Brampton East, ON
Thank you, Minister.
Lastly, Brampton is one of the fastest-growing cities in the country. It's the ninth-largest city today. Its population is 600,000, and it's projected to be one million in the next 10 years.
Infrastructure is a huge demand in our neck of the woods. Just to correct the record on some of the questions and testimony that have been given today, how can the Canada infrastructure bank help a city like Brampton build infrastructure to help Canadians get moving again?
Liberal
Bill Morneau Liberal Toronto Centre, ON
We know that Brampton, like other places across the country, needs to have the kind of infrastructure that will allow people to get back and forth—in the case of Brampton, to downtown Toronto—and will allow people to get home to their families more rapidly in the evenings. That infrastructure is expensive. We know the money we've put for the next dozen years is going to make a really significant dent, especially when we work together with Ontario and local municipalities.
However, there will be projects that will provide us with the opportunity to think about doing even more. That's what the Canada infrastructure bank is intended to do, find those projects where we can crowd in private sector investors; they can put money to work. It might help all of us who have pensions that are being run by those institutional investors, and it can also help us to have a more productive place, whether it be Brampton or other places across the country, because of those investments.
That's what we're trying to achieve.
Conservative
Ron Liepert Conservative Calgary Signal Hill, AB
Before we leave this whole question around infrastructure, I wanted to get clarity on a comment you made to my colleague.
If I heard you correctly, you indicated that the new infrastructure corporation would operate similarly to the Export Development Corporation and the Business Development Bank, which I believe are both 100% backstopped by the Canadian government. If that's the case, if there are bad loans in those organizations then it is, in effect, the taxpayer who would pick up that bad loan.
Is that your answer to Mr. Poilievre's question, that if there's a bad loan within this new infrastructure corporation, it would, in fact, be the taxpayer who would pick it up?
Liberal
Bill Morneau Liberal Toronto Centre, ON
Thank you for the question and the opportunity to clarify.
What I said was that this institution would be finding ways to crowd in private sector capital. Among the ways this might be done would be to consider loans and loan guarantees that might allow projects that might otherwise not be economic to become economic. In the case of each specific project, we expect the project would have dynamics that would entice investors to be involved. This would mean that in many cases, there would be security for whatever it is that they might have had a loan or a loan guarantee for. That's important.
We do expect that in many cases that won't be necessary; in some it might. It will be specific to each project. I expect what will happen is that the security that might be there might create the opportunity for us to have loans that work to make sure these projects are successful.
Conservative
Ron Liepert Conservative Calgary Signal Hill, AB
I want to shift gears a bit. If my colleague Mr. Deltell were here, he would ask one simple question: when are you going to balance the budget?
Liberal
Bill Morneau Liberal Toronto Centre, ON
And if your colleague Mr. Deltell were here, I would want to spend time reminding him how successful our efforts have been to deal with what we saw as a challenging environment when we came into office.
Happily, we are seeing a situation where employment has improved in this country, a very positive outcome, I'm sure, across the country, likely in all the ridings we represent.
I'd also point out—
Conservative
Ron Liepert Conservative Calgary Signal Hill, AB
I asked one simple question, when are you going to balance the budget? You haven't answered it, so I want to go on to the next question.
Liberal
Conservative
Ron Liepert Conservative Calgary Signal Hill, AB
The next question is this. I'm looking at division 2, part 4, which allows for the borrowing of up to $1.3 trillion.
Mr. Minister, if my calculations are correct, during your four years as finance minister that budget debt will increase by about $80 billion. Are you comfortable with that being your legacy?
Liberal
Bill Morneau Liberal Toronto Centre, ON
We are very much looking at a legacy of creating success for Canadians and for Canadian families. We know that behind the 250,000 new jobs that we've created in this country over the last year are families that are now being more successful. We know that in each one of those situations they are creating better economic outcomes. We know that to the extent we can grow the economy more rapidly than it was growing when we came into office, because of the lack of investment before, we can actually find ourselves in a better, long-term situation that will improve our economy, and as a result, improve our fiscal health.
Conservative
Ron Liepert Conservative Calgary Signal Hill, AB
Just to be sure that the record is clear, when this government took over almost two years ago the budget was balanced.
Mr. Minister, you talk about legacy for Canadians. If my math is correct, I think when you're done as finance minister every Canadian will have a legacy of something like at least $17,000 per person owing. Again, are you comfortable with that legacy?
Liberal
Bill Morneau Liberal Toronto Centre, ON
Maybe we can be absolutely clear. When we came into office what we saw were “rosier than expected” economic growth forecasts that led to a conclusion that was erroneous, that we would be successful fiscally over the next number of years. In fact, when we looked at the real outcome, the growth was going to be lower; and therefore, as you know, we have made investments to try to deal with that growth.
What Canadians will see as a result of our investments, as a result of our government over time, is as I said, more success for their families, a better situation for the long term, and more positive growth in this country.
Conservative
Ron Liepert Conservative Calgary Signal Hill, AB
That's not correct, Minister. Your own finance department released the numbers that said the budget was balanced at the end of that fiscal year.
Those are all the questions I have.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Wayne Easter
Mr. Minister, do you want to add further to that?
Okay, if there is nothing further to add, we have Mr. Badawey.
Liberal
Vance Badawey Liberal Niagara Centre, ON
Thank you, Minister, for being here this afternoon.
Mr. Minister, in my former capacity as a local mayor and local member of regional council in the Niagara region, I recognized the need to, one, expedite municipal projects; and two, equally if not more important, ensure that projects were affordable to local property taxpayers through leveraging.
With that, in my current capacity as a member of Parliament, we're working together, all of us—different departments, different ministries— towards putting in place what I will call these enablers.
My question is this. Do you envision the infrastructure bank, as well as the $180-billion infrastructure investments that the government is prepared to make over the course of the next few years, to act as a mechanism, as an enabler, to expedite municipal projects while alleviating the financial pressures on our local property taxpayers? These projects would include community improvement plans, as well as those that align with federal government strategies, such as the trade corridors in certain jurisdictions throughout the nation.
Liberal
Bill Morneau Liberal Toronto Centre, ON
Vance, I think it's important, especially coming from your background at the municipal level, to know that, to the extent that we can find projects that are going to make a really big difference in your region, that can be funded through the Canada infrastructure bank, and allow investors to create returns there, what it will do is allow the local municipalities to make other investments if they choose, or to be in a better financial situation.
That is exactly what we're trying to achieve. If we can do more, it's going to make things better for people in your area. If we can do more in a way that allows the local area to make other investments that are going to be important for residents, that's also critically important.
Liberal
Vance Badawey Liberal Niagara Centre, ON
If I can have a second question as well, Mr. Chairman, when we look at areas such as those who we're trying to help in the middle class, you mentioned earlier pregnant women and pregnant working women. What I've heard in the past week or so is a great idea. It's great that those women are going to have 18 months versus the 12 months now available to them to spend with their child. It also alleviates some pressure on the day care costs.
Is there an opportunity to look at those women who are pregnant now and/or just getting into their maternity leaves, to take advantage of that possibility within the budget?