Finance Committee on May 30th, 2017

[Pierre-Luc Dusseault, NDP, Sherbrooke, QC]

Thank you.

I hear what my colleague is saying, but I am not sure that we are talking about the same thing.

Bill C-44 seeks to exempt a whole host of applications under the Immigration and Refugee Protection Act from the Service Fees Act. My amendment, which seeks to restrict that exemption, simply reads: “application for a temporary resident visa, work permit, study permit or extension of an authorization to remain in Canada as a temporary resident.”

As you can see, the current bill lists various kinds of applications that could be exempted from the Service Fees Act, applications that are listed in proposed paragraphs 89(1.2)(a) to (h) of the Immigration and Refugee Protection Act. When people renew applications, or apply for work permits when they have study permits that are still valid, I am not sure that a link needs to be established. As I see it, the fees still apply.

If people apply for work permits in Canada when they have study permits already, do the work permit fees apply?

[Victoria Henderson]

Again, a temporary resident is not within the scope of what we're seeking. We're specifically seeking an exemption from the User Fees Act or the service fees act for permanent residents. IRCC currently has an exemption for temporary residents from the act. We also have an exemption for citizenship. These have already been legislated. What we're seeking here is specifically for permanent residents. We're seeking this because of the unique nature of our clientele. They are internationally located—they're across the world—and we need flexibility when it comes to setting fees.

[Pierre-Luc Dusseault, NDP, Sherbrooke, QC]

As I understand it, the current bill seeks to exempt permanent residency applications. Paragraphs 89(1.2)(a) to (h) apply only to permanent residents.

Don't they?

[Victoria Henderson]

Specifically, in (a), we already have the exemption for temporary residents, and what's being added is on permanent residents.

[Pierre-Luc Dusseault, NDP, Sherbrooke, QC]

Okay.

[Victoria Henderson]

We have an exemption for work and study permits that's legislated already, so the only amendments that we're seeking are related to permanent residents.

[Pierre-Luc Dusseault, NDP, Sherbrooke, QC]

Okay.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Are there any further questions on that area?

Go ahead, Mr. Ouellette.

[Robert-Falcon Ouellette, Liberal, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

The IRCC still has an exemption for a couple of different categories. You're asking for additional exemptions from the User Fees Act.

What difference has the exemption made in those other categories in being more flexible? How has it helped IRCC?

[Victoria Henderson]

With regard to the previous exemptions that were sought and are now enacted in legislation for temporary residents and for citizenship, for temporary residents, it was sought for a fairly similar reason to why we're seeking it for permanent residents. It again has to do with the unique nature of our clientele, that they're located internationally, and that we need flexibility, in that sense, when setting our fees. For citizenship, it was for other reasons.

However, within the scope of what we are seeking here for permanent residents specifically, it has to do with that flexibility that we need to set our fees.

[Robert-Falcon Ouellette, Liberal, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

How has it improved or helped you in accomplishing your work? It's good to know about flexibility, but in the case of someone who's trying to get service from the Canadian government, how has it enabled you to do your work more easily?

[Victoria Henderson]

What I can speak to is the scope of this and specifically what it will do to help us with improvements for permanent residents.

For permanent residents who are located—

[Robert-Falcon Ouellette, Liberal, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

Actually, I'm interested in how it helps because it's good to know. I want to know how it has helped you in other categories, because it's going to be an indicator of how it's going to help you in future categories.

I'd like to know whether you saw an increase in the number of people who applied. Were there shorter wait times? It's things of that nature, so I can understand the effect of that legislative change on the ground and what the impact would be on the ground of this legislative change.

[Victoria Henderson]

In setting fees? Okay.

In setting fees, we look at many aspects when we look at our fee structure. Some of those aspects include the cost of providing that service, private versus public benefit, things like that.

In the case of a temporary resident, when the exemption was granted, how it may have improved is that the portion of the costs that Canadians are subsidizing may decrease, if we increase our fees, for example.

Our fees must remain competitive, though, internationally. When we have a temporary resident fee or a permanent resident fee within the scope of this proposal, we look at international comparisons as well. That's another factor that's taken into consideration when we set our fees, to make sure we're remaining competitive with similar countries, like the U.K., the U.S., Australia, for example. That will help us do our work but also achieve overall objectives.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

The bottom line is to give you flexibility.

[Victoria Henderson]

Yes.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Are there any other questions?

[Robert-Falcon Ouellette, Liberal, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

So you could increase the fees or lower them.

[Victoria Henderson]

Yes, we can decrease or increase, based on a full analysis of the fee against several factors.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Okay, we are on amendment NDP-18.

Is there anything further to add on that, Pierre, before we go to a vote?

[Pierre-Luc Dusseault, NDP, Sherbrooke, QC]

Yes. As I understand it, under the powers that the act gives you, you were able to increase the citizenship application fees from $200 to $600 all in one jump.

That was quite recently, either in 2013 or 2014.

[Victoria Henderson]

Yes, indeed, in 2014, we increased the citizenship grant fee, as we call it, to $530.

[Pierre-Luc Dusseault, NDP, Sherbrooke, QC]

Yes. It would be surprising if the fees went down instead of up. However, these fees may increase drastically overnight. It is more of a comment than a question, but I must say that many constituents have told me that they are considering applying for Canadian citizenship, but because of the prohibitive fees associated with being granted it, they had to save money for a number of years. That's the case with a large family. The cost is now about $600 per person.

[Victoria Henderson]

What I can say is that our fees, regardless of an exemption, are still subject to the Financial Administration Act, in the sense that we cannot charge more than the cost of providing the service.

[Pierre-Luc Dusseault, NDP, Sherbrooke, QC]

Thank you.