Evidence of meeting #13 for Finance in the 43rd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was economy.
A video is available from Parliament.
Conservative
Pierre Poilievre Conservative Carleton, ON
But you're telling me, when the Government of Canada spends tens of billions of dollars on infrastructure, it can't give us an item-by-item list? It doesn't have one ready?
Parliamentary Budget Officer, Office of the Parliamentary Budget Officer
We can't comment on his marital situation.
Conservative
Pierre Poilievre Conservative Carleton, ON
Anyway, listen, can you comment on the government's list of projects? They claim they spent tens of billions of dollars on infrastructure, and you're telling me you've asked for a list of the projects and so far no such list has been forthcoming. Is that a true statement or a false statement?
Parliamentary Budget Officer, Office of the Parliamentary Budget Officer
It's a true statement. No complete list has been forthcoming. We have only a partial list.
Conservative
Parliamentary Budget Officer, Office of the Parliamentary Budget Officer
Do you know? I don't know.
Director General, Costing and Budgetary Analysis, Office of the Parliamentary Budget Officer
It's about half the program.
Conservative
Pierre Poilievre Conservative Carleton, ON
The program has spent tens of billions of dollars, and about half of the money is unaccounted for, or at least not on a list.
Director General, Costing and Budgetary Analysis, Office of the Parliamentary Budget Officer
We're driving towards a single comprehensive spreadsheet in the office with a list of all the projects that have received money since 2016. Hopefully that list will exist soon.
Conservative
Pierre Poilievre Conservative Carleton, ON
It should be a pretty simple list to have. When you build stuff it's out in public view. People will see the construction happening at each of these sites. It can't be that hard for an official to note each of these multi-million dollar projects and show they add up to the total amount spent. How is it even possible that they're spending tens of billions of dollars on infrastructure and they don't have a list to tell us where all the money went?
Director General, Costing and Budgetary Analysis, Office of the Parliamentary Budget Officer
At this point you're looking at me, but I would kick the question down the table to my earnest colleagues from the Office of the Auditor General.
Conservative
Pierre Poilievre Conservative Carleton, ON
Okay, I understand the Auditor General's office is now taking Parliament's direction, after a recently held Conservative-initiated vote, to have a full audit of infrastructure spending. When will that audit commence?
Deputy Auditor General and Interim Commissioner of the Environment and Sustainable Development, Office of the Auditor General
The audit has commenced. We informed the Speaker a few weeks ago that we had accepted the motion on our work plan, and we're endeavouring to complete it in the time frame that had been requested in the motion.
Conservative
Pierre Poilievre Conservative Carleton, ON
This should be one interesting report. Have you been able to get a full list of all the projects yet?
Deputy Auditor General and Interim Commissioner of the Environment and Sustainable Development, Office of the Auditor General
I can't say that I've been involved in that, so I don't know what the answer to that question is.
Conservative
Deputy Auditor General and Interim Commissioner of the Environment and Sustainable Development, Office of the Auditor General
I would only say that normally the office would report, in the final report, the information that we gather during our audit.
Conservative
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Wayne Easter
I can't answer that question, but I do expect there'll probably be a question on this in the House, Pierre. I think I can see one coming tomorrow.
Mr. Fraser.
Liberal
Sean Fraser Liberal Central Nova, NS
Thanks very much, Pierre. I might actually get a break in question period tomorrow.
Liberal
Sean Fraser Liberal Central Nova, NS
There are a couple of things I wanted to follow up on in the time that we have remaining. There have been some questions around your potentially receiving an invitation from this committee, through a motion, Mr. Giroux, to consider the cost of pulling money out of the economy through taxation. I think you quite properly pointed out that borrowing is another way to finance government expenditures.
I was taking a look, since that question came up, at the rate of the 30-year Government of Canada bond. It's currently at 0.704%, which is effectively the rate at which the market will lend to the federal government. I'm curious if you would be able to, technically speaking, in this kind of exercise, assess whether the return on investment of government expenditures to support business growth would exceed the borrowing rate that the Government of Canada is benefiting from, which is, realistically, at a historic low.
Parliamentary Budget Officer, Office of the Parliamentary Budget Officer
To answer that question I'd have to be able to look at one specific program because, as you know, there are a variety of programs that provide support to businesses. They have different purposes and, obviously, different returns on investment.
Liberal
Sean Fraser Liberal Central Nova, NS
From a technical perspective, though, if you look, say, at the strategic innovation fund or the Atlantic innovation fund, and so on, would you have the ability, potentially, to calculate what the return on the investment of those funds would be? You did mention there would be some difficulties in actually landing on the right figure, but is that something within your technical capacity?