Finance Committee on April 8th, 2020

[Michael McLeod, Liberal, Northwest Territories, NT]

My name is Michael McLeod, the MP for the Northwest Territories.

I want to say thank you to all the panellists who presented.

My question is for Norman Yakeleya from Dene Nation, somebody I know well.

First of all, I want to say thank you to Norman for advocating for the indigenous support funding that landed here in the Northwest Territories. I've been hearing it's very well received. The Dene people were able to get money, Inuvialuit, the self-governing nations, and we're working on the Métis, to get money through the urban and other funding pots.

I live in an indigenous community. I'm probably one of the few MPs who live in an indigenous community. I see the money being put to good use. I look out my window and I see elders getting extra firewood and some of the disabled people getting firewood also. Some of the elders are receiving food packs. We are also seeing a lot of people appreciating all the money that was provided. A lot of people are returning to their traditional hunting areas, which they hadn't been to in a long time.

I want to run a question by Norman Yakeleya, the regional chief for the Dene Nation. Could you tell the committee about the significance of this distinction-based indigenous funding going directly to territorial first nations in the context of other federal programs?

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Go ahead, Chief Yakeleya.

[National Chief Norman Yakeleya]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to our MP, one of the best ones we've had.

I want to state very clearly that the direct funding that has now happened to help people go on the land is very important. We clearly heard from Premier Cochrane that for direct funding to the first nations, the indigenous people, the territorial government is willing to get out of the way and that we have a direct relationship with the federal government. Now the people who get this direct funding determine on their own how that funding is going to be used for the purpose of requesting that funding. That has alleviated a lot of confusion and stress.

The old way of doing things is no longer applicable due to COVID-19. We certainly want to impress upon the federal government, through financial committee meetings such as these and others, that we want to start this new relationship. It is working, and people are really appreciating it. The chiefs know it's a start. As National Chief Perry Bellegarde said, we as first nations know it's a start, and we need to continue supporting this.

It's springtime here in the north. People are now on the land. I've been getting calls from all over the nation. People really appreciate that. We also know there are certain segments of our knowledge keepers, known as the elders, who would love to go but aren't able to as there are many health conditions in our communities.

One of the things that we really wanted to stress is the engagement of the Canadian Rangers to ensure that the people are well fed with on-the-land food, that wood is cut for them and that they're being taken care of. The survey that the Dene Nation did clearly indicates that we in the north are the most vulnerable, but we're also the most powerful ones when we're on the land, so we want to thank whoever in Ottawa helps us continue this process here to really have the protection of—

[Michael McLeod, Liberal, Northwest Territories, NT]

Okay. I want to get one more question in, Norman.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

It will have to be a quick one, Michael.

[Michael McLeod, Liberal, Northwest Territories, NT]

It's a quick one.

I'm watching a lot of the program money landing and a lot of people out spring hunting. There are people setting fishnets, hunting geese, returning to traditional hunting areas. Some people are out there repairing their parents' or grandparents' cabins. Although it's a crisis, it seems that the federal support enabled first nations, the Métis and Inuvialuit to turn the COVID-19 crisis into an opportunity to reconnect with their culture.

Do you also see that, Grand Chief Norman?

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Go ahead, Chief.

[National Chief Norman Yakeleya]

Thank you, Mr. Chair, and thank you, MP Michael McLeod.

I am in with my mother-in-law. I see it in four provinces. I see this as a really good opportunity. As you said, we see this as an opportunity to come back to us as a people, who we are as Inuit, Métis and Dene. We are helping each other. We are taking advantage of this. The elders are telling us how to make camp, how to make fishnets, how to hunt beaver. Ducks are going to come pretty soon, and we call it “blast 'em and pluck 'em season”. It is everything that we have known before.

We were encouraged to come off the land and live a different lifestyle. Now the elders are waking up. I have a meeting this afternoon at three o'clock with our elders council of the Dene Nation and sometime soon with our AFN elders council. I think you are right in your assessment. This is really helping the indigenous people.

Again, we want to thank whoever is helping us in Ottawa to make sure that we get direct funding and give the people the ownership of decisions.

We really want to help Canada. The Dene are praying for all of Canada.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

We'll leave it there, Chief. Thank you both.

I remind people to shut off their microphones when they're not speaking and stick to the question.

As well, could Craig in your office, Pierre, send me the list of questioners for the Conservatives? The way I have it at the moment is Vidal, Schmale and Cumming in that order, but if that's changed, tell him to send me a note.

We'll turn to Mr. Ste-Marie.

[Gabriel Ste-Marie, Bloc, Joliette, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

First, I want to acknowledge all the witnesses here today and thank them for their presentations.

My questions are for Mr. Picard.

We're obviously experiencing a major health crisis, which has a serious economic impact. I want you to address the issues related to COVID-19 and the impact on your areas of economic activity, particularly the fishing industry.

[Chief Ghislain Picard]

Mr. Ste-Marie, thank you again for giving me the opportunity to answer this question.

Clearly, our chiefs are also very concerned about the economic issue. A number of our nations and communities in Quebec depend on commercial fishing. The same thing goes for traditional harvesting.

I think that we must look at things on two fronts in particular. We're a few weeks away from the start of the fishing season. The concerns relate to the massive influx of foreign workers and also to the availability of compensatory programs.

[Gabriel Ste-Marie, Bloc, Joliette, QC]

On that note, the government—

[Chief Ghislain Picard]

It will be a matter of how far the government is willing to go to compensate for this economy.

[Gabriel Ste-Marie, Bloc, Joliette, QC]

Okay, thank you. I gather that—

[Chief Ghislain Picard]

I want to emphasize that the Assembly of First Nations Quebec-Labrador fully supports the National Aboriginal Capital Corporations Association, which is asking for $245 million to assist indigenous entrepreneurs across the country. This funding will help support hundreds of businesses and thousands of workers. I think that this ties in with the economic concerns currently being raised in relation to COVID-19, but also with the post-crisis concerns.

[Gabriel Ste-Marie, Bloc, Joliette, QC]

Thank you.

Mr. Picard, we talked about economic issues and economic activities. To date, the government has announced funding for first nations.

In your opinion, is the amount adequate? Are you concerned about the implementation with regard to the flexibility of the criteria? We know that, generally speaking, the provinces and Ottawa are good at passing the buck by saying that this matter doesn't fall within their jurisdiction. Do you think that the criteria can be relaxed to ensure that the money is freed up quickly? Is there enough money? What about the flexibility issue?

[Chief Ghislain Picard]

We often say that this isn't really the time for jurisdictional disputes.

I also want to add that it's important to know that we're on the second line in the regions. The people on the front line are our experts. I'm thinking of the nurses and social workers, but also of the chiefs facing situations where they must make decisions quickly, in light of situations that only they can properly assess. So to answer part of your question, the funding is clearly inadequate.

In Quebec-Labrador, particularly in Quebec, we already know that the number of cases is much higher. As a result, the risk factor is even greater for our communities. It should be noted that our chiefs want to be in a position where they can prepare rather than respond.

[Gabriel Ste-Marie, Bloc, Joliette, QC]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

We'll have to end it there, Mr. Picard. Thank you both.

We'll turn now to you, Mr. Julian, for six minutes.

[Peter Julian, NDP, New Westminster—Burnaby, BC]

Thank you very much to our witnesses today. You're offering very powerful testimony.

I think MPs of all parties are working together. We want to ensure that we avoid the mistakes of the past. In past pandemics, we have seen indigenous peoples and indigenous communities neglected. We need to learn from those lessons, so we appreciate all of you coming forward today. My questions will be primarily for the national chief, and if Mr. Chartrand wants to respond as well, he is of course welcome to.

I have four questions. First, I would like to repeat that a number of indigenous communities in northern Manitoba and northern Ontario have been calling for the support of the Canadian Forces around protective equipment, supplies and even field hospitals. These requests from indigenous leaders have also been repeated by MPs like Niki Ashton and Charlie Angus in those areas of northern Manitoba and northern Ontario.

My first question is this. Should the federal government be moving quickly to act on these requests, given the dearth of infrastructure and support in those communities?

Second, indigenous communities often suffer from a lack of health care supports and health care staff. Should the federal government take action, working with indigenous communities, to ensure there are enough doctors and nurses and health care support in indigenous communities?

My third question is in regard to the emergency response benefit. It leaves a lot of people behind currently and many of those people are indigenous people. Does it make sense to have a universal benefit that is available to everybody right away?

My fourth and last question, and thank you for your patience, is this. There is $15 million that has been provided for indigenous people living off reserve, for all the costs linked to COVID-19. Do you believe that is even remotely enough, or are we repeating the errors of the past?

Thank you very much for responding to these questions.

[National Chief Perry Bellegarde]

Thank you, Mr. Julian, for the questions.

To the first question regarding the Department of National Defence and the Canadian Armed Forces, I have been in contact with Jonathan Vance. He's targeting not only the 96 first nations communities but the Inuit communities as well. We had one case in Eabametoong First Nation in northern Ontario. Chief Harvey Yesno has made the request for support, in terms of hospitals, to get up there. It's a community of about 1,600. I would encourage the Canadian Forces to make sure they have their plans in place to deal with the 96 first nations territories when this COVID-19 does hit, and that they be ready to go into action on a moment's notice to get up there before things spread drastically.

We did say, on the second point about the doctors and nurses, there are no hospitals in the north. They have nursing stations and they're inadequately staffed already. With COVID-19 and the cases coming forward, there is going to be a surge or an increased demand for proper health care, for nurses and doctors to go up there. I would encourage all levels of government, federal and provincial, to start doing the emergency planning to make sure that need is addressed.

Regarding the CERB, the universal benefit for all, I think at some point that should be investigated further to look at the pros and cons of that, because there are a lot of people who are going to be falling through the cracks regarding the CERB that was talked about initially.

For the $15 million for the off-reserve people, the question was whether it is enough. Of course it's not enough. We have 50% of our people who reside in urban centres, in terms of access to proper health care, issues with rent, issues of food security, all of the above. That's something that has to be kept in mind going forward.

Since this is the finance committee, I would make this last comment regarding the long term, and again stress that once COVID-19 is finished and it mellows out again, everybody needs to get their heads around some sort of economic development advisory team to kick-start the economy with the involvement of first nations people. We have to start thinking about that down the road. Yes, we're dealing with COVID-19 and the immediate health care needs and crisis right now, but we have to start thinking long term as well about how to kick-start the economy in a way that benefits all Canadian people, including first nations, Métis and Inuit.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Thank you, National Chief.

Would the chief want to add a minute further to that on those four questions? We only have a minute left.

[David Chartrand]

Thank you for the question, Mr. Julian. I'll keep it short.

Thank you for inquiring about the Métis. There are over 400,000 of us, so I was hoping somebody would ask a question about the Métis people.

Clearly we're not requiring or asking for the military right now. We're creating our own plans as we move forward. One of the things that should be specified very clearly is that we don't have nursing stations. We do not have clinics in any capacity in our villages. We have zero because we're still caught in this limbo between two jurisdictions in terms of who's responsible. As I said, we still pay billions in taxes but nobody seems to take heed of that and worry about us.

The matter you raised regarding the emergency benefits, it's a matter we should all look at again one more time.

On the $15 million, I'll follow what Perry Bellegarde said. Even in Manitoba right now, we've just decided on our own that for the $7 million we got, we're giving friendship centres half a million in Manitoba. We're also giving homeless shelters resources from our $7 million, on our own. We've opened our own pandemic emergency. We own three construction camps and we've now turned them into hospitalization for potential utilization for major pandemics, not just for us but for all Manitobans in the event they need it.

We also have isolation units we purchased from British Columbia that are coming in. Regarding mobility, we've also contacted the school divisions to see if we can use gymnasiums in the event it does go out of hand in our villages. We have big villages everywhere. We're connected right next door to reserves all across western Canada, but we do not have the same benefits, nor do we have any nurses or clinics.

We're on our own right now, and that's an unfortunate situation. As a Canadian, I feel very disappointed in our country right now on this. Why do the Métis have to stand for themselves always on their own? As I said, nobody hesitates to look for our taxes, both provincially and federally, when it comes to paying taxes.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Thank you, Mr. Chartrand.

We'll now go to the five-minute round, starting with Mr. Vidal.

[Gary Vidal, Conservative, Desnethé—Missinippi—Churchill River, SK]

Good afternoon, everyone. Thank you to all of the people presenting. We really appreciate your input at the committee today.

My first question is for National Chief Bellegarde.

The Canadian Tax Foundation and the Chartered Professional Accountants of Canada prepared a brief earlier this week that addresses a number of aspects of the new wage subsidy program. It includes the eligibility of first nations businesses.

As I am sure you are aware, the standard model for first nations in Canada to carry on business is through the use of limited partnerships. These limited partnerships operate businesses in all parts of the Canadian economy, including forestry, mining, manufacturing, construction and consumer sales. The effect of the COVID crisis on these companies mirrors that of the general Canadian economy.

The brief indicates that this business model will not qualify for either of the amounts of the wage subsidy programs. If first nations businesses, through their limited partnership models, are excluded from these benefits, I see this as a huge gap in the creation of this wage subsidy. What have you heard from your members in regard to this? Have you had the opportunity to have any conversations with the Minister of Finance about this and how he might address this?