Finance Committee on April 16th, 2020

[Michael McLeod, Liberal, Northwest Territories, NT]

Yes. Some of the feedback I'm getting I will bring forward, but we're looking for some flexibility on some of the existing programs that have been announced.

My final question is in regard to the airlines. We have some serious concerns.

We have 22 communities that are fly-in only. We have a number of airlines, especially on the Beaufort Sea and the coast, that are talking about not being able to operate and that may shut down entirely. If that happens, there will be no service that will be able to go in there unless there's a charter service from the south or we get the military. Is there a backup plan in the event that we have some communities in Canada that could become totally isolated? What do we do?

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Ms. McDonald, do you want to take that one or is it a point of information to take up the line?

[Suzy McDonald]

No. My colleague Evelyn can respond, I think.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Okay. Go ahead.

[Evelyn Dancey]

Certainly. As shown earlier this week by the announcement of the $17.3 million in respect of northern airlines and airlines support, the government is following very closely—and it's my colleagues at Transport Canada as well as ISC—these developments and impacts of COVID-19 in respect of what they mean for essential services, including transportation services in the north and for remote communities.

The discussions with airlines are extensive and frequent through those two departments as well as the eligibility of those businesses under the special programming available through the financial crown corporations. There are various windows open and very sustained dialogue and ongoing assessment taking place.

This concept of essential services and the vulnerability of certain communities is very much on the government's radar, and I would presume that there would be an ability to stand ready to support, as we saw this week.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Thanks, all of you.

Thank you, Mr. McLeod and those who answered.

I do have Mr. Poilievre next on my list. I don't see him.

Are you there, Pierre?

[Michael Cooper, Conservative, St. Albert—Edmonton, AB]

I'm going to—

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Okay, Mr. Cooper. Go ahead.

[Pierre Poilievre, Conservative, Carleton, ON]

I'll let Michael go first.

[Michael Cooper, Conservative, St. Albert—Edmonton, AB]

Pierre has some issues with his phone so I'll take his time. Thank you for that.

I will direct my questions to the finance officials. I want to follow up on an issue that I have been raising over the last couple of meetings, and that is with respect to credit unions. I know that there is an expedited process in place to get credit unions on board in terms of being able to provide the CEBA to their clients. Last week it was stated that there was an anticipated timeline that, by the end of the weekend, a number of credit unions would be on board. I looked at the EDC list of approved lenders today and I don't see that the list has been expanded. I was wondering if any of the officials could provide an update in that regard.

It's a critical issue because right now in Alberta literally 40,000 small businesses are shut out.

[Soren Halverson]

I can take that question.

What I can tell you is that EDC has a list of financial institutions that are participating in delivering the CEBA. Today there are 43 institutions on that list. That list is growing every day.

[Michael Cooper, Conservative, St. Albert—Edmonton, AB]

That clarifies it. I went onto the website and it looked to me like that list had not expanded, or at least it didn't appear to with respect to credit unions. Am I mistaken?

[Soren Halverson]

Let me speculate. There's a list on the EDC website that has to do with its export guarantee program. That isn't the same list as the list of eligible institutions for the CEBA. With respect to CEBA, there's a list. For example, just from Alberta, Servus would be on that list. Connect First would be on that list.

In addition to that, there's a two-pronged approach that EDC is taking. First of all, they're working literally around the clock to add additional credit unions to the list one by one, but the other thing that they're doing is that they're now working with the centrals, and that includes the Alberta Central, to essentially get everybody who is a credit union in those particular places on.

[Michael Cooper, Conservative, St. Albert—Edmonton, AB]

Good. I appreciate that update. I guess I didn't see the complete up-to-date list. I was looking at an old list, so thank you for that clarification.

I don't have a question, but I do want to put on the record, in terms of CEBA and the wage subsidy, the serious gaps that exist, by providing some examples of businesses that have been shut out in my riding. For example, one business owner has no employees but works 10 to 15 hours a day in their business with the help of their spouse and kids. In 2019, on the advice of their accountant, they decided to take a dividend rather than a salary. They are shut out of CEBA, and they're shut out of the wage subsidy. Another business owner in my riding set up a start-up tech company. Over the last two years they've been working hard to build up their business. They haven't taken any salary or income out of the business. They haven't paid themselves at all because they have chosen to keep the money in the company to grow. Quite frankly, right now they're being penalized for working to grow their business. They're shut out of CEBA and shut out of the wage subsidy.

I appreciate that the government and officials are working in an unprecedented time as expeditiously as possible, but there are many practical examples that I'm hearing in my riding, and in cases across Canada, where small businesses are not getting the supports that they need and it's making a difference in whether they can survive or stay afloat. I hope the government will take that and move as speedily as possible to rectify some of these gaps.

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Thank you, Michael.

I don't know if anybody wants to answer that or if that's just a point to take back. If not, I will go to Mr. Fragiskatos.

Ms. Gaudreau, we'll have time for one question from you as well.

Mr. Fragiskatos.

[Peter Fragiskatos, Liberal, London North Centre, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Thank you to the officials for all of the work they've obviously been doing tirelessly on behalf of Canadians.

It's actually a very specific question I'm asking on behalf of a constituent, a constituent organization, but there are a number of health-based research institutes throughout Canada as well. We've seen the importance of health research throughout this experience of COVID-19. Health-based research happens certainly on university campuses, but it also happens at hospitals. The question that I've been asked was from a hospital-based health research institute, the one in London and that's Lawson. I'll give a huge shout-out to them. The Lawson Health Research Institute is doing incredible work and always has.

The question that they have put, and others have put as well, is this: If they're registered as a not-for-profit, are they eligible for the Canada wage subsidy and other supports?

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Who wants to take that, folks?

[Andrew Marsland]

Perhaps I'll begin with the rules. I don't want to give a kind of ruling with respect to any institution [Technical difficulty—Editor]

[Peter Fragiskatos, Liberal, London North Centre, ON]

No, and I don't want to put you in that position, Mr. Marsland. I'm just seeking clarification so that I can communicate it to them.

[Andrew Marsland]

Non-profit organizations and registered charities are eligible for the wage subsidy. Hospitals are not.

[Peter Fragiskatos, Liberal, London North Centre, ON]

Okay. They are hospital-based, but what happens when a health research institute, that's based at a hospital, is registered as a not-for-profit? Are they in that case counted as a not-for-profit and therefore eligible for the Canada wage subsidy, and in addition perhaps even the Canada emergency business account, since that is open to not-for-profits?

[Andrew Marsland]

I think I'd prefer it if the organization could contact either the Department of Finance or the CRA and we could look at the particular structure. As I say, the basic construct of the rule is that a hospital wouldn't be eligible but a non-profit organization would be. It's very fact-dependent. I would hesitate to express a view on a particular organization, but we'd be happy to engage with the organization.

[Peter Fragiskatos, Liberal, London North Centre, ON]

It's a unique situation. Obviously hospitals are not eligible, but they're based at a hospital, are registered as not-for-profit and carry out their work through donations and the like on the part of the community.

[Andrew Marsland]

Yes.

[Peter Fragiskatos, Liberal, London North Centre, ON]

In any case, I know it's a very specific question.