Evidence of meeting #20 for Finance in the 43rd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was communities.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Wayne Easter
You're right on time, Jim, and there certainly will be opportunities to talk about the long term, I'm sure, after we get through this.
Conservative
Liberal
Liberal
Julie Dzerowicz Liberal Davenport, ON
Okay. I just want to say a huge thanks to everyone for the very thoughtful presentations. I also want to lend my thanks for your absolutely heroic work, not only during this pandemic but ongoing. Thank you so much for all your efforts.
One of the key things we've learned, at least in hearing you today, is that all the issues we had before are only exacerbated and really present themselves so clearly to us today. I want to direct my questions to Ms. Fair from West Neighbourhood House, just because I have only a short period of time. I will maybe end off with Mr. Clement if I have a minute left.
First, I want to say thanks to you for all your wonderful efforts in the Davenport community, and I wouldn't say just Davenport but broadly in Toronto as well. You've been a true champion for our community, not only around homelessness and housing but also for our seniors community and for our community in general.
You've proposed a number of excellent ideas. The first one was around income tax filing. This has been an area I've been very worried about. We have thousands of seniors, and many of them do not speak English, since 43% of the Davenport riding come from another country. I just want you to elaborate a little bit. You talked about automatic income tax filing. How would that work? Would you see it as the Canada Revenue Agency just taking last year's financial figures, or how would it work? Could you give a couple more details?
Executive Director, West Neighbourhood House
John Stapleton has written a paper about this. It's on the Open Policy Ontario website. He has a checklist of all the questions that need to be filled in for income tax, and the government actually has the information for almost every single item there already. That's usually through the submission of T4s, T4As or, for seniors, from ESDC, GIS and old age security.
If we could overcome the privacy rules on this, which are, frankly, a little bit silly, there could be a flow of data to fill those income tax forms and get those benefits out. That's it in a nutshell.
Liberal
Julie Dzerowicz Liberal Davenport, ON
Perfect. Could you do me a favour and formally submit that to the committee, please, just so that it can be part of our formal deliberations?
You've also made a number of recommendations around housing, which were very helpful. This question may be for Mr. Bell, as well, who talked a bit about the ongoing discussions we're going to need to have.
I like to say that in every crisis there's an opportunity before us. We have introduced the national housing strategy. We have introduced the poverty reduction strategy. We've taken a number of huge steps to try to address the housing issue, the homelessness issue and the poverty issue in our country. The opportunity that is before us.... We have a better understanding of what's happening right now and some of our vulnerabilities.
You've presented a number of ideas, Maureen, around things that we could be incorporating or adding to the efforts we are already making right now, so I want to ask this. You mentioned an analysis that was done around your CERB recommendation to provide an incentive to private landlords. Please submit that to us.
I only have 30 seconds left, but maybe you could talk a little more to us. Do you see the recommendations that you've made as fitting in well with the national housing strategy, or is it in addition to what we have already proposed?
Executive Director, West Neighbourhood House
I would suggest that COVID has raised some concerns that would show that the national housing strategy needs to now be turned into a system, an affordable housing system, and there are different components of it. I think it's a natural progression from the very good start of the national housing strategy, but as others have mentioned, there are still a lot of glitches with the national housing strategy, relying heavily on not-for-profits to finance construction, and the private sector projects only having 10- or 15-year affordability terms. We think there's a way now to take the good stuff out of the national housing strategy and turn it into a system.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Wayne Easter
Thank you, all.
We'll turn now to Mr. Cooper, then to Mr. McLeod, and then we'll try to give time for one question each to Mr. Poilievre and Mr. Fragiskatos.
Mr. Cooper.
Conservative
Michael Cooper Conservative St. Albert—Edmonton, AB
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
I'll direct my questions to Mr. Bell.
We know that private charitable organizations, community groups and religious organizations are on the front lines, playing an integral role in helping Canadians get through this crisis. Certainly, Siloam Mission in Winnipeg is no exception.
You noted in your submission that 90% of the revenues generated by Siloam come from private donations. You spoke about what is anticipated to be a sharp decline in charitable giving. What measures do you think the federal government could take to encourage charitable giving at this time? Would you support, for example, increasing the charitable tax credit temporarily to encourage those Canadians who can afford to give to do so? What are your thoughts?
Chief Executive Officer, Siloam Mission
I have not given it that much thought, but on the surface I like your idea, even if that is a temporary measure, because certainly it would create some incentive for people. We know there will be challenges within households with what I would call “disposable income”, but if that were a consideration, I believe that would be worthy, even in the short term. I would see that as part of a partnership between the federal government and the agencies, like Siloam and others participating on the phone here and across the country, whereby we could continue.
At Siloam, given the fact that 90% of our dollars are from donors, we think we need to be good stewards with every dollar so that we can stretch them to the best of our ability. I think a partnership that would include a measure like that with the federal government would perhaps get donor communities to continue giving. I also think that in addition to being able to adopt measures like that, we need to be in a position as organizations to show the impact they are having. That's why I said in my earlier comments that whatever measures could be done or put into place, including the one you just suggested, should show the impact they are having.
We talked a lot about housing today. It starts with housing, but you need the supports. That's where those operational dollars come into play so much. They say, “Okay, John Doe, you have a place now, but you must have the supports.” He must have the ability to attend job training to rehone his skills or learn a new skill.
Our biggest fear, quite frankly, is that if the 90% should plummet significantly, we have no choice but to cut back services. That would be a sad day, not only for non-profit organizations but for the hospitals and the places that serve our communities that will continue to be overloaded by people showing up at emergency rooms and elsewhere who are battling addictions and mental health issues.
It's complicated, but the simplest way I can explain it to you is if that method and other methods.... I think the Reaching Home initiative is tremendous, but I'd like to see it get more legs. Siloam has participated in the national housing co-investment fund. It's great, but it needs to gain more momentum. We should see what's working and what's not, and redirect the dollars into areas where they are needed for those who are working on the ground.
We would be a very worthy participant in trying to trade ideas. I don't want to get ahead of myself, because I think all of us on this conference call today are speaking the same language, but accountability needs to be put in place by all of us. If you were to increase the non-refundable tax credits around charitable donations and if the national housing strategy were to expand, get more aggressive or redirect, I would expect that in return you would need to see results.
Thank you.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Wayne Easter
We are out of time, Mr. Cooper.
Thank you, both.
We will now go to Mr. McLeod.
Liberal
Michael McLeod Liberal Northwest Territories, NT
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you to the presenters. It is a very interesting discussion today. Housing is a very important issue in my riding. It's probably one of the biggest issues we are challenged with.
I'm the MP for the Northwest Territories. In the north so far we've been very fortunate that COVID-19 has had very little presence in our communities, especially our smaller communities, because not only do these communities have limited health resources, but with our overcrowding problem, it can be almost impossible for many to practice physical distancing within their own homes.
I have two questions.
First, would you agree that this pandemic has proven the need for greater support in addressing the social determinants of health, like housing? I know that nobody here has talked about the north or remote or indigenous communities, but I want your opinion on that.
Second, I'm hearing a lot of suggestions about building houses as part of economic recovery, because it's going to create jobs in every community we build houses in. Can you talk about those two things?
I'm just going to throw it out to whoever is interested in responding. Maybe all of you can respond, if we have the time.
Chief Executive Officer, Siloam Mission
Thank you for the questions.
The first question was about whether the pandemic has increased awareness of the need for housing in communities. I can tell you that here in Winnipeg, the simple answer is yes. It already existed. There was already work being done by our organization and others, in consultation with End Homelessness Winnipeg, to try to determine where the costs are and who's going to operate these houses in working with landlords and all those things, but this pandemic has just increased the need.
Further to the question, I will tell you that I know there's a significant piece about the indigenous community that was just mentioned. It should be known that 50% or 60% of the people who are having meals at Siloam on a daily basis are of indigenous backgrounds and come from the north. They are seeking housing. We're working with End Homelessness Winnipeg. I know I keep mentioning End Homelessness Winnipeg, and they're going to love the promotion I'm giving them here today. They are officially an indigenous organization, so they're working very closely with that issue, but they're also feeling the pressures of the need for housing within the indigenous community.
Simply put, this pandemic has just put us all on alert in terms of how much more critical the housing situation is. I have to say again that it's more than just the bricks and mortar of the houses. We have to have the supports in place. That is where I hope the federal government, in the next two or three or four months, or whatever your guess is for when this is going to end, will show a willingness to listen from an operating perspective and say, “Yes, there's a need for housing, but how about the operations to help people as they train for jobs and deal with mental illness and deal with addiction and those types of things?” Those things are escalating.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Wayne Easter
We'll have to end that round there. Sorry, Michael.
We'll take one quick question from Mr. Poilievre and one quick question from Mr. Fragiskatos.
Pierre, go ahead.
Conservative
Pierre Poilievre Conservative Carleton, ON
I heard some of the witnesses mention the idea of a permanent universal basic income. When this idea originated, it was that the basic income would replace a whole series of complicated government programs with one simple payment to the end-user.
Is that the approach that the witnesses would take to a universal income? If so, what programs, other than simple social assistance payments, would you see replaced by a universal basic income?
Liberal
Spokesperson, Front d'action populaire en réaménagement urbain
Great.
The FRAPRU isn't in favour of a guaranteed minimum income. We think that, under the current system, it could actually weaken the social safety net.
As we can see from the current situation, the social safety net is crucial, even though some programs weren't sufficient at the time of the pandemic, like employment insurance. We don't think it's a good idea to go down that road, precisely because we worry that it would weaken the social safety net, thereby making social programs less accessible.
We don't recommend that the federal government implement such a measure because it could erode existing programs. Instead, we think it's important to adjust programming, employment insurance and social housing, in particular. The flaws in the employment insurance program have become apparent in recent weeks.
Conservative
Pierre Poilievre Conservative Carleton, ON
Thank you.
Would any other witnesses care to answer that question?
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Wayne Easter
Thank you, both.
Pierre, we don't have more time. We'll just get Peter in with one question and then we're done. We're over our time now.
Mr. Fragiskatos, you may have one question.
Liberal
Peter Fragiskatos Liberal London North Centre, ON
Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.
If Mr. Poilievre is advocating for basic income, we do live in unprecedented times indeed.
To the witnesses, the question I have is on the response in the immediate sense to COVID-19 in relation to homelessness. I'm sure you may already know that the Edmonton EXPO Centre has been taken out, with 500,000 square feet used by the city now, and the space is basically split in half. On one side are medical services and beds for individuals with COVID-19 who are experiencing symptoms and need somewhere to self-isolate. The other side of the facility serves as a drop-in. From 8 a.m. to 8 p.m., there's temporary storage space available for those who need it, with meals and shower and washroom access available. Five hundred people a day have been using it.
Do you have any thoughts—and this is open to whoever wishes to raise a hand first—on whether this can serve as a model to deal with COVID-19 and the challenges it poses for homeless populations in the immediate, very short term?
