Evidence of meeting #32 for Finance in the 43rd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was question.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Director, Government Relations, Équiterre
The process is not meeting the conditions for which it was created. We do not have the conditions to carry out the process and thus it has broken down.
Bloc
Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe Bloc Lac-Saint-Jean, QC
In your opinion, would this drilling be harmful to the environment? If yes, considering that the process has become much less public, can we conclude that citizens are presently adversely affected by this drilling?
Director, Government Relations, Équiterre
I am not an expert on drilling, but I can talk to you about consultations. Yes, I believe it is important to hear from all industry stakeholders, the experts on this issue, and also from local communities, which have legitimate concerns.
Bloc
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Wayne Easter
You've got about a minute and a half that we stole from you earlier. Go ahead.
Bloc
Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe Bloc Lac-Saint-Jean, QC
All right.
This is a question for everyone. It is not really a rhetorical question, it is a question that we, the members of the Bloc Québécois, are asking ourselves.
What price must producers of oil sands fuel get to turn a profit?
President and Chief Executive Officer, Mining Association of Canada
I will answer, but I would like to first answer the previous question.
I just want to point out that, according to the information I have, very few projects have been submitted to the Impact Assessment Agency of Canada.
Bloc
Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe Bloc Lac-Saint-Jean, QC
My question is not about that.
I want to know at what price does oil sands oil start being profitable for producers.
I have one minute left, Mr. Gratton.
President and Chief Executive Officer, Mining Association of Canada
I know. I just wanted to answer your previous question.
Bloc
Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe Bloc Lac-Saint-Jean, QC
It doesn't work like that. Thank you, but that is not my question.
President and Chief Executive Officer, Mining Association of Canada
I can answer your second question.
President and Chief Executive Officer, Mining Association of Canada
It depends on the producer. There are some producers who can keep going at the current price. It is difficult, but it is possible. For others, it is not profitable. The price must be higher.
Bloc
Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe Bloc Lac-Saint-Jean, QC
What I am understanding is that there is no base price. It depends on the producer. At this time, it is not profitable for most.
President and Chief Executive Officer, Mining Association of Canada
Our members are oil sands producers who have been established for years, even decades, and they have covered most of their capital costs. For them, it is more profitable now than it is for others. It depends on the company.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Wayne Easter
Okay, we will go to Mr. Julian, and Mr. Cooper will follow Mr. Julian.
Go ahead, Peter.
NDP
Peter Julian NDP New Westminster—Burnaby, BC
Thank you, Chair.
I would like to thank all the witnesses present today. We hope your families are safe and in good health.
My initial questions are for Mr. Viau and Ms. Brouillette.
First, I would like to understand the current approach to subsidies. Have you estimated the amount of subsidies available to the sector?
Policy Analyst, Energy and Climate Change, Équiterre
Thank you for the question.
The entire Équiterre team hopes that the families of all MPs and witnesses are also well.
For the past few years, we have calculated the amount of federal subsidies for fossil fuels with the help of our counterparts at the International Institute for Sustainable Development, Environmental Defence and the Réseau Action Climat. The 2019 figures indicate that Canada's fossil fuel subsidies total $600 million at a minimum. That is truly the lowest amount because there is a serious lack of transparency. For example, we hope that the credit from Export Development Canada in particular is used to meet urgent needs. There is also a lack of transparency with respect to tax subsidies and the envelope for the Trans Mountain pipeline expansion.
NDP
Peter Julian NDP New Westminster—Burnaby, BC
Thank you.
Could you tell us more about the impact of climate change?
Policy Analyst, Energy and Climate Change, Équiterre
I do not have the figures at hand right now, but there is a lot of data on the economic impact of climate change. For example, there is the impact on public health, the deaths linked to pollution. For insurers, there are the costs related to the flooding that has occurred in recent years. There is also the cost of infrastructure that must be maintained because of the rising sea level, rising temperatures and the increase in the number of extreme weather events. There are also the heatwaves, like the one in Montreal right now. That has a public health cost.
I do not have the data, but we know that it is profitable to invest in the Action-Climat Québec program.
In conclusion, with respect to climate, the cost of inaction is far greater than the cost of taking action. We know that if we do not act now, the cost of the impacts of climate change will increase. The consequences will become increasingly serious with each passing year. Therefore, it is preferable to invest now. We have the opportunity to do so given that the economic recovery requires substantial investments.
NDP
Peter Julian NDP New Westminster—Burnaby, BC
Thank you.
You mentioned transparency. In British Columbia, there is a lack of transparency with respect to the audit of Trans Mountain. This project was abandoned by the private sector because it was not profitable. During committee meetings, there was mention of amounts that will be distributed through the Canada Account and Export Development Canada. The most recent figures total more than $15 billion.
When we look at all the needs related to the COVID-19 pandemic and the fact that everyone is suffering, is it a good idea to invest this $15 billion in addition to everything we have paid for the Trans Mountain project, and to make this a priority expenditure?
What is your opinion of the use of the Canada Account program and Export Development Canada?
Policy Analyst, Energy and Climate Change, Équiterre
I would say that even in a crisis—
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Wayne Easter
Ms. Brouillette, I am going to let others in on this question. Anybody who wishes to respond can raise their hand.
Peter, I know Ms. Stubbs very strongly disagreed with you, but I didn't let her in.
Go ahead, Ms. Brouillette.