Finance Committee on May 28th, 2020

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Thank you, both.

Mr. McLeod, we'll wrap it up with you. As always, there's interesting debate on many subjects.

I believe Mr. Egan wants in.

I'll let Mr. McLeod ask his question first, and then I'll bring you in, Mr. Egan.

Go ahead, Michael.

[Michael McLeod, Liberal, Northwest Territories, NT]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to the presenters.

I have a quick question for Mr. Marshall from the Mining Association of Canada.

I was very happy to hear you talk about the safety of the workers and community safety as top priorities. In the north, people want to work, but they're worried about transit workers coming in to the projects and the virus spreading. The mining operations had to adapt to a very new and very challenging working environment.

I want you to share a little bit about how your sector has responded and adapted to ensure that safety is there for everyone. I see Agnico Eagle piloted an on-site rapid-testing centre at its mine in Nunavut. COVID-19 is happening in the Gahcho Kué mine, the Snap Lake mine, the Diavik mine.

How is this, and is this something that mining camps across the country should be considering?

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Mr. Marshall.

[Brendan Marshall]

I'll start by saying it's not only things that different mining companies across the country are considering. I'd say it's things that our membership has been working very collaboratively on to ensure that best practices are shared, that what is learned by one company can be experienced and submitted to others so that the maximum level of safety and precautionary measures can be put in place to protect employees and protect the communities in and around which our members operate.

What are they doing? What are our members doing? You mentioned a few examples: social distancing at mine sites, ensuring that people are six feet apart on buses, limited capacity for transportation across sites. However, it's not just on sites. We're also talking about measures whereby the entire logistics supply chain that involves the transportation of people and goods has had to adapt.

For example, we can take Rio Tinto with respect to the diamond mine. It has put in expanded and adjusted shift rotations for its employees whereby there are assessments before people board planes, when they go off site—multiple aspects of engagement whereby cases can be identified.

[Technical difficulty—Editor] companies [Technical difficulty—Editor] have symptoms, and then ultimately, opportunities or programs for tracing have been put into place to help manage the safety of employees on site. It's a hugely important part of our industry's commitment to the communities they operate.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Mr. Egan, you want to make a quick point, and then we'll have to close.

[Timothy Egan]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Many Canadians have cousins in Europe.

Sorry.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

No, there's a problem in translation there, Mr. Egan.

[Timothy Egan]

I took the liberty of switching to French. I'll stay in English.

I was saying that many Canadians have cousins in Europe. Mine happen to be in Ireland, but we all have them all over.

I assume that Mr. Viau was referring to the people of France. As I have noticed over the last year, there have been protests on the streets of France virtually every week, principally about energy affordability, so it is front and centre for most people around the world.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Okay. We don't want to get into that debate here. The point has been made.

We are a little over time, and we have a minister waiting on the next panel, plus finance officials for their biweekly report on how much money is being spent on this pandemic.

On behalf of the committee, I want to sincerely thank you all for your presentations today. We have had an interesting discussion. I hope we can come out of this with balance at the end of the day and have a viable energy industry and also move ahead on our environmental concerns. We just have to address these issues jointly. Thank you, again, for the evidence.

We will suspend until the next panel. Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

I call the meeting to order. This the second panel of meeting number 32 of the finance committee. As everyone on this delegation certainly knows, we're meeting on the government's response to the COVID-19 pandemic.

We thank you for the biweekly report, which is getting longer every two weeks. That's a sure thing.

To start off, we have the pleasure of having with us, for the first 45 minutes, Minister Fortier, who's the Minister of Middle Class Prosperity and Associate Minister of Finance.

Minister, we'll go to your opening remarks, and then we'll go to a series of questions. Following that, we'll meet with finance officials.

The floor is yours. Welcome.

[Mona Fortier, Liberal, Minister of Middle Class Prosperity and Associate Minister of Finance]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Good evening, everyone.

I'd like to start by thanking you, the members of this committee, for your tireless work during this crisis. I also want to thank you for inviting me to speak to you today, and I thank the officials for joining us.

As we all know, COVID-19 still poses a significant threat to public health. It has also turned people's lives, their jobs, their businesses and our economy upside down.

To help Canadians through this difficult time, our government has been taking quick and decisive action. We have been offering support directly to workers and to businesses to protect jobs and support our economy. We continue to listen to workers and businesses to ensure that the emergency programs respond to the needs of Canadians.

Over the past two and a half months, we have consulted extensively with stakeholders and parliamentarians, some of whom are in this room. We have held town halls. We have spoken directly to Canadians. I have personally attended over 18 round tables and town halls to get a true understanding of how COVID-19 has impacted our country. These engagements have spanned the country, from Moncton and Windsor to Regina and Kelowna, just to name a few. I have spoken with diverse cultural organizations and key economic stakeholders. Just yesterday I heard from youth on how this crisis has impacted their lives. We have listened to community and business leaders, workers and employers.

The feedback we have heard on the ground has played an important role in shaping our response to this crisis. We have had an open-door policy and have continually updated programs and measures to reflect the realities faced by families and businesses alike.

The historic support measures we have implemented have been designed, developed and delivered directly to Canadians in record time, thanks to public servants who have been working around the clock. I can proudly say that Canada has one of the most comprehensive plans in the G7.

The government rapidly implemented sweeping measures to provide Canadians with over $150 billion in direct financial support to attenuate the impact of the crisis on the economy. That support will give our economy a leg up during the post-crisis recovery phase.

We brought in measures that help workers and businesses in all sectors of the economy, as well as employers of all sizes. We are helping students, who have to pay tuition, and parents, who are working hard to balance the demands of work and family in the context of COVID-19. We are making sure nobody gets left behind. All across the country, the Canada emergency response benefit, the CERB, is providing temporary income support to Canadians who have stopped working because of COVID-19. Over 8.2 million Canadians have applied for the CERB so far.

We are working with the provinces, the territories and indigenous leaders. In fact, to help indigenous communities address the health, social and economic challenges they are facing, last week we announced $75 million in new funding for indigenous organizations providing services to indigenous individuals in urban centres and off reserve. This new money brings the total indigenous community support fund investment to $380 million.

The Canada emergency wage subsidy, CEWS, will allow eligible Canadian employers who have been affected by COVID-19 to receive a subsidy of 75% of employee wages. This wage subsidy will enable an employer to rehire workers previously laid off as a result of COVID-19, help prevent further job losses, and better position them to resume normal operations following the crisis. To date, this program has already supported over two million Canadian workers, maintained their paycheques and maintained their relationship with their employer. We continue to listen to Canadians and take their input on ways to improve our emergency measures.

We understand that families are struggling with added costs as well, and many parents are now trying to balance work and caring for their children, all from home. That is why, last week, families will have received a one-time special CCB payment of an additional $300 per child, delivering almost $2 billion in extra support across the country to help families during this challenging period.

We know that the pandemic has brought extra costs for low- and modest-income Canadians, too. They need some support as well. As one of our first measures, we announced a GST credit top-up that was delivered in April and provided financial support to these Canadians, including over four million seniors. Earlier this month, we announced that seniors who receive old age security will automatically receive a tax-free payment of $300, and those who receive the guaranteed income supplement will receive an additional $200 of tax-free support.

To help property owners and businesses that rent from them, we launched the Canada emergency commercial rent assistance for small businesses, with applications opening this past Monday, May 25. This program provides property owners the opportunity to do their part in helping small businesses and their employees succeed in these challenging times. We're all in this together, and that's why the government is stepping up to provide rent relief to businesses while property owners maintain rental income through this crisis.

We have heard from businesses, big and small, that the availability of credit is critically important to ensure they have the ability to continue to grow their businesses once the immediate health emergency has passed. This includes the business credit availability program that is available to mid-sized companies with larger financing needs.

Support for mid-market businesses will include loans of up to $60 million per company and guarantees of up to $80 million. Through the BCAP, Export Development Canada and the Business Development Bank of Canada will work with private sector lenders to support access to capital for Canadian businesses in all sectors and regions.

We have taken steps to help small businesses that require support to help pay their fixed costs. The Canada emergency business account has helped hundreds of thousands of businesses through a partially forgivable loan. We heard from businesses that there were those that originally could not qualify and we took the necessary steps to expand eligibility to help those in need.

We also expanded the eligibility criteria for the Canada emergency business account to include many owner-operated small businesses. Expanding the scope of this measure will help small businesses protect the jobs that Canadians depend on. Changes to the Canada emergency business account mean more Canadian small businesses can get interest-free loans, which they can use to cover their operating costs while revenues are down because of the pandemic. In response to feedback we've received from across the country, we're now making the Canada emergency business account available to more businesses.

If I may, I would also like to talk about the large employer emergency financing facility, which was announced just recently. This program supports Canada's largest employers.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Minister, I will interrupt for a second. I know people are getting a little impatient. I can see it.

We're a little over time, but I'll let you finish. It's my understanding that you can stay for six questioners. I believe you can take a little extra time. Is that correct?

The floor is yours. Go ahead. Complete your statement.

[Mona Fortier, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I'm almost done my opening remarks.

The measure I was talking about is designed to protect jobs in Canada, to help Canadian businesses overcome economic challenges now and, above all, to do whatever we can to prevent businesses that would have been viable if not for the pandemic from going bankrupt.

We have invested in institutions critical to fight against COVID-19, and we have also announced $450 million to help researchers and research institutions to bridge to better times. I can share with members of the committee where this program is going to. We also invested in the launch of the fish harvester benefit, a program worth up to $267.6 million, to help provide income support for this year's fishing seasons to eligible self-employed fish harvesters and sharespersons crew who cannot access the Canada emergency wage subsidy.

Ever since the COVID-19 pandemic began, we have focused on supporting Canadians and Canadian businesses. We will keep doing whatever it takes during the crisis to help Canadians and our economy weather the storm and emerge even stronger.

Thank you for your attention. I'm ready to answer questions.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Thank you very much, Madam Minister.

I'll list out all of the questioners so that people know where they are at. In the six-minute round, we will start with Mr. Kelly, and then go on to Mr. McLeod, Mr. Ste-Marie and Mr. Julian. There will be two five-minute rounds. Mr. Cumming and Mr. Cooper will split five minutes, and Ms. Koutrakis will wrap it up with the minister.

We're starting with you, Mr. Kelly.

[Pat Kelly, Conservative, Calgary Rocky Ridge, AB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Minister, for coming. It's good to see you. I'm glad that in your opening presentation you mentioned specifically the BCAP because I asked Minister Morneau two questions about that on May 13, and he refused to answer them. I hope that you are the minister who knows the answers to some of these questions. With regard to the BCAP, the EDC portion, how many loans have been funded so far?

[Mona Fortier, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

First of all, our government has taken swift and immediate action to support Canadian businesses through this challenging time. I want to add that the BCAP is providing critically important liquidity to small and medium-sized businesses to help them cover their operational costs.

[Pat Kelly, Conservative, Calgary Rocky Ridge, AB]

But, Minister, we've heard reports that almost no loans have actually been funded under that program. I'll bring to your attention a conversation that I had this morning with a business in my own riding that expressed frustration about being able to actually access that program. You didn't answer my question, so I'm going to ask you again. How many loans have actually been funded under the EDC part of the BCAP?

[Mona Fortier, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

We know that this program is an enormous team effort done in partnership with over 100 financial institutions. Money from this program is flowing, and businesses across the country are receiving the important support they need. These are large loans that require important due diligence and adjudication by financial institutions. Additionally, there's—

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

We have to go back to Pat, Madam Minister.

[Pat Kelly, Conservative, Calgary Rocky Ridge, AB]

Minister, when this program was announced, the guarantee from EDC was announced as a way to expedite this process and ensure that these loans can actually be made very quickly. I'll settle for an approximate number. I mean, is it more than zero? Is it more than 10 loans? Do you know even the range of loans that might actually have been funded and have gotten to a business that needs the money right now?

[Mona Fortier, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

What we can say is that applications have been received, and liquidity support is already flowing to businesses in need. Additionally, we know that there is often a delay between a financial institution's approving a business and reporting through BDC and EDC, so we will continue to be open and transparent as full and accurate information becomes available, MP Kelly.

[Pat Kelly, Conservative, Calgary Rocky Ridge, AB]

It might have been better to just say “we don't know” if you don't know the answer to that question, and we could move on to something else.

Another question that I put to Minister Morneau that he didn't answer was whether or not Canada's AAA credit rating is secure.

[Mona Fortier, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

Currently, we still have our AAA credit, and we will continue to make sure that we have a strong economy to keep that AAA credit.

[Pat Kelly, Conservative, Calgary Rocky Ridge, AB]

Do you know what the cost to Canada's debt service will be in the event of a downgrade?

[Mona Fortier, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

As we know, since the beginning of this crisis, we have prioritized families, Canadians and businesses, and we are making sure that they can go through and weather this storm with all of the programs we have presented. Again, as in the report today, as you know, we have increased participation for those programs, and we will continue to make sure that we support Canadians and businesses during this crisis.