Finance Committee on May 28th, 2020

[Pat Kelly, Conservative, Calgary Rocky Ridge, AB]

What will the deficit be this year? We've had a report from the PBO, and the latest report now says $260 billion. Do you agree that that's the correct number?

[Mona Fortier, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

We don't think any Canadian should have to worry about paying the bills or higher daycare costs or putting food on the table because of the crisis. We know that Canada's financial situation is solid and that the country is prepared to meet the challenges of COVID-19. We are determined to keep supporting families, and we are prepared to do whatever it takes to help them.

[Pat Kelly, Conservative, Calgary Rocky Ridge, AB]

Well, Minister, you didn't answer even any part of my question. I asked you about the Parliamentary Budget Officer and their estimate of the deficit for this year. I wondered whether you concurred with the Parliamentary Budget Officer.

[Mona Fortier, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

We thank the PBO for his work on behalf of parliamentarians and all Canadians. Given the truly unprecedented events of the past few weeks, a very high degree of uncertainty surrounds any economic or fiscal forecast presented at this time.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Last question, Mr. Kelly.

[Pat Kelly, Conservative, Calgary Rocky Ridge, AB]

With just one question left, I want to go back to the BCAP.

You insisted that money is flowing under this program, yet you would not affirm whether loans have been made, or you don't have any kind of number. What percentage of the allocation for that program is flowing? Is half the money out? Is a quarter of the money out? Do you know what proportion of the money, if any, is already out, and if not, are you certain that money is indeed flowing as you insist?

[Mona Fortier, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

Thank you for the question.

These loans are very important to businesses. We know there is significant demand. Applications have been received, and we have offered financial assistance to businesses that need it. We will continue to be open and transparent and to communicate complete and accurate information as it becomes available.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Thanks, both of you.

We're turning to Mr. McLeod for six minutes, who will be followed by Mr. Ste-Marie.

Michael.

[Michael McLeod, Liberal, Northwest Territories, NT]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Minister, for joining us today. I also want to thank you for the work that you and the cabinet have done to help us through this pandemic.

Much like this pandemic is affecting all regions of the country differently, I believe the federal government's economic recovery should also reflect the existing distinctions that we have across the country. Our territorial governments have been very vocal in voicing and pointing to some of the gaps.

In the north, we've been very fortunate and have had limited health impacts as a result of COVID-19. In the last couple of months, however, this issue has compounded our existing already high cost of living and our large service and infrastructure gaps. I wanted to ask whether the government is prepared to assist in addressing these unique recovery challenges faced by the territories in Canada.

[Mona Fortier, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

First, thank you for your representation. I know we've been talking since the beginning to better understand the realities of northern communities and also making sure that we understand the needs of the communities.

Since the beginning of this crisis, our government has made investments of $305 million for the distinctions-based indigenous community support fund to help address the immediate needs in first nations, Inuit and Métis communities. Also, we've invested $75 million for indigenous organizations providing services to indigenous peoples living in urban centres and also off reserve, which support more community-based projects that address the critical needs of indigenous populations.

We've also provided programs like the wage subsidy where we believe that the opportunity will be taken to bring.... Because of the recent changes that our government business supports have made, indigenous-led businesses are now eligible for the 75% wage subsidy.

These are tools that will help to make sure the communities stay strong and that the businesses will be able to stand strong and continue after this part of the pandemic. The idea with the economic emergency response is to make sure that businesses still have their employees so that when we start recovery we'll be in a better position.

[Michael McLeod, Liberal, Northwest Territories, NT]

As we move to economic recovery, we in the north are going to need more flexibility on cost-sharing of projects. We're going to need allocation of recovery programs that are focused on a base-plus type of per capita formula.

Are those things something that you would consider?

[Mona Fortier, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

Currently we're still providing emergency supports to businesses, Canadians, to weather this crisis and make sure we continue to flatten the curve. I know that in northern communities it's a good story for now, but we can't let that go. We have to make sure we are in the best position possible when we start recovery.

I believe that at this time we are concentrating on making sure we support all Canadians, businesses and workers, and when due time comes and we have better certainty of what will be the next steps, we will be able to bring different options to make sure that we support northern communities.

[Michael McLeod, Liberal, Northwest Territories, NT]

Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

We are turning to Mr. Ste-Marie.

Gabriel.

[Gabriel Ste-Marie, Bloc, Joliette, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Good afternoon, Madam Minister.

Thank you for joining us this afternoon. I would also like to thank the deputy minister and all the officials for being here to answer our questions.

Madam Minister, what is the government doing to honour the supplemental unemployment benefit agreements it made with businesses?

[Mona Fortier, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

Thank you so much for your question.

From the start, the government made it a priority to set up the Canada emergency response benefit to help Canadians and, of course, Quebeckers, put food on the table. A few weeks later, we also made an additional $1,000 available to make sure that people who were still working a little could continue to do so.

That was the government's response. We believe that our Canada emergency response benefit is helping Quebeckers and Canadians get through this.

[Gabriel Ste-Marie, Bloc, Joliette, QC]

Let's go back to the time before the CERB came on stream. Many big companies were forced to scale back their activities, so they pointed their employees toward employment insurance. To maintain their buying power, they set up supplemental unemployment benefit agreements, or SUBs. Instead of getting 55% of their salary, workers can collect about 80% of their salary thanks to employer-funded supplemental unemployment benefits.

Then, out of the blue, despite agreements the government had with companies, it automatically converted employment insurance into emergency benefits without even telling them. It has said nothing at all about SUB agreements. I think the government forgot about them. Without clear instructions, companies chose to hold up their end of the bargain and kept paying their employees the SUB, as agreed. Now thousands of workers have to repay their emergency benefits.

That was the only point the president of Unifor raised when he appeared before the Standing Committee on Finance. Thousands of employees with many big companies are dealing with this problem. Workers have to repay the benefits. Why? Because, in many cases, their SUB exceeds $1,000, disqualifying them from the Canadian emergency response benefit.

What is the government going to do about this?

[Mona Fortier, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

Thank you for laying that out.

We truly are living in extraordinary times. The government has introduced numerous measures to support businesses and individuals during this unprecedented time. Our guiding principle has been to ensure that no Canadian need worry about paying the bills, paying the rent, or feeding their family. To achieve that, our government committed to supporting not only Quebeckers, but also the health care system and the economy.

Our economic response plan included a suite of measures, including the Canada emergency response benefit, which I mentioned earlier. Individuals who could not work or were sick because of COVID-19 could collect $2,000. Some people were eligible for an additional $1,000. To support employers, we created the emergency wage subsidy, which many people have used. Over two million workers now have access to that subsidy.

We needed to find a way to support Canadians. That's why we created these programs. We will continue to support Canadians.

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

Minister, we'll have to come back to Mr. Ste-Marie. I want to keep relatively equal time.

Go ahead, Gabriel.

[Gabriel Ste-Marie, Bloc, Joliette, QC]

When companies can access the wage subsidy, that solves the problem because they can top up their workers' pay. The problem is that some companies aren't eligible for the wage subsidy for the first period. In many cases, companies kept generating revenue for whatever they had delivered up until mid-March. Then they suspended their activities for a week or two, and now they don't have access to the emergency wage subsidy.

Company representatives have called Service Canada, but there's no service, obviously. They've written emails, which have gone unanswered. Yet an agreement was signed. The president of Unifor suggested a solution that would be fairly simple to apply. At least for the first month, as with employment insurance, supplemental unemployment benefits would not be considered income.

What's going on is just incomprehensible. There is an agreement between the government and companies. Companies use their revenue to pay their workers more than 55% of their salary. In the meantime, the government changes its programs but doesn't inform companies. It doesn't communicate with them. At the end of the month, workers have to repay the $2,000 CERB. What you're telling me, Madam Minister, is that if the amount exceeds $1,000, you think you've done your job and you forget about those people. You just forget about them.

Is that what you're telling me?

[Mona Fortier, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

I thank my colleague for his question.

As I said, the Canada emergency wage subsidy is currently supporting over two million workers across the country. We have also expanded the eligibility criteria. Our government wants more Canadian workers across more sectors to get the support they need.

That's why we extended the emergency wage subsidy by another 12 weeks until August 29. We want to make sure Canadian workers keep getting that support. The extension will afford workers greater peace of mind because they will keep getting the support they need during these difficult times.

We're currently consulting business and union leaders about potential adjustments to the program, including the 30% drop in revenue threshold, to stimulate job creation and growth. These potential changes, which would be made following the consultation, would enable us to maximize employment.

The consultation is online right now, and it would be great if Canadians and businesses participated.

[Gabriel Ste-Marie, Bloc, Joliette, QC]

Mr. Chair, do I have a little time left?

[The Chair, Liberal, Wayne Easter]

I'm sorry, Gabriel. You're actually a minute over. You did well.

We'll turn now to Mr. Julian and then go to a five-minute round, starting with Mr. Cooper and Mr. Cumming combined.

Peter.

[Peter Julian, NDP, New Westminster—Burnaby, BC]

Madam Fortier and all of the public servants who are here today, we hope that your families continue to be safe and healthy. We appreciate your being here today.

I want to come back to your initial points, Madam Fortier. You talked about responding to needs across the country, yet the Prime Minister has indicated that the CERB, which has really been the foundation of the emergency supports for this country, will basically start to expire in the coming weeks. The government has no intention of providing additional supports. Can you confirm that?

Could you also confirm that the government will keep its commitment around people with disabilities, which was contained in the motion that was passed unanimously last month in Parliament, and provide additional supports for people with disabilities?

We are a long way from this pandemic being over. People need supports. The government should not be rolling back the supports. It should actually be reinforcing them.

[Mona Fortier, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

Thank you. I hope your family is well, too. My three kids are around here today. They're really impressed with what's happening with our committee.

I just want to say that of course currently we've been providing support for families and individuals to make sure they don't have to worry about putting food on the table, paying their rent or even paying their bills. That is why we provided this Canada emergency response benefit.

This support helps to ensure that Canadians and businesses make it through the crisis and that when it's over they're able to quickly rebound and restart our economy. Our government will continue to do whatever necessary to support workers, businesses and our economy as we deal with the COVID-19 pandemic.

As for your question—